please empty your brain below
While I have no strong views about Harris it should be remembered that despite various claims especially from USAF in the Second World War target bombing was so inaccurate that it also caused numerous casualties and left the intended target mostly untouched
Irrespective of the pros and cons, a statue of Bomber Harris, and a discussion of the horrors of war, is entirely appropriate for Remembrancetide. Lest we forget the brave men of Bomber Command, and the soldiers, sailors and airmen (and women) and civilians who suffered and died on both sides.
As for Elizabeth II, isn't there enough stuff with her name on it, without a statue as well.
The part of Ebury Street where Mozart briefly lived is now known as Mozart Terrace. It was reputedly where Bob Kiley was housed (at public expense) during his tenure as London's first Transport Commissioner, much to the disgust of Ken Livingstone's critics in the press.
Until Trump.
No it isn't. History is littered with reactionary war deeds. Bit like saying it wasn't right to hang numerous war criminals at Nuremburg, or that the US shouldn't have dropped the A bomb on Japan after they cowardly attaked Pearl harbour and later prolonged the 2nd world war needlessly costing more lives.
War is a horrible thing and must have a way of ending it.
dg writes: Not in the City of Westminster.
The statues of Beau Brummell, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Ronald Reagan are on the list for my next visit to London.
But I do find the hint that such reporting might result in vandalism to the statue rather far-fetched. There are probably no potential statue-vandals among DG's readership, but if there are any, they are not going to be any more likely to carry out such acts after seeing DG's picture than they were already.
The controversy over Harris will not die down any time soon, and discussion of it should help to inform those responsible for decisions about any comparable acts which are being contemplated right now.
That said, I am ashamed of myself that I was in front of Nightingale's statue without realizing it.
Then again, your passer-by may well think you are a complete nerd.
But I'd be happy with that.
According to my 1973 copy of A Taxi Driver's Guide to London one was installed at the junction of Savoy Street and Victoria Embankment in 1928, but painted green to harmonise with the IEE railings. It was still there when the book was published, but obviously is not now. Given the date of installation, I imagine it was the classic K2 design.
The British were in fact, the first to target civilians, in raids in May 1940 over what is now North Rhine Westphalia. However, the Germans had bombed the military base at Scapa Flow before that with one death. After British air raids on Berlin in August 1940, Hitler gave the go ahead for the raids on Coventry as retaliation.
The raid on Dresden was even for Churchill's conscience, a raid too far, and I believe he intervened after that to stop any more such raids. The raid was instrumentalised in the cold war as an illustration of Anglo-American 'terror raids' brutality and there are still a few but vocal voices in Germany that point out that there were higher casualties in other raids on cities, i.e. Hamburg , July 1943 or Cologne, and as percentages of the population at Pforzheim and many others.
For me personally, I never understood why so much effort was made to destroy cities and railway lines in Germany and yet no effort whatsoever was made to destroy the railways, which were the feeders to the death camps in the east, although it had been long known by the Allies, what was going on there.
As a German resident for over thirty years, I would say that the Germans, would be happy, if the British would publicly accept the uncomfortable truth that some raids were unnecessary, and be slightly more reticent about still hero worshipping the bombers, some 75 years later, for instance the dambusters where over 1,500 civilians as well as foreign 'forced labour' were drowned. The Germans have had to come to terms with their 'difficult' history, it's a shame the Brits can't do the same.
1) Harris - 8
1) Faraday - 2
1) Charles II - 0
1) Reagan - 3
1) Columbus - 2
1) Mozart - 2
1) Huskisson - 0
1) Brummell - 1
1) Nightingale - 2
1) Elizabeth II - 3
"it had been long known by the Allies"
It had been reported to them. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when historical records say they didn't actually *believe* the extent of it until the soldiers walked in and liberated camps. It still seems unbelievable today. I don't think their first inkling that it might be true came until 1944, when the Soviets said they'd made some disturbing discoveries. And even then, can't believe Stalin and all that.
Yes, there was once a green telephone kiosk where Faraday's statue now stands. Sadly it was only the unloved K8 design in its later years, which somehow didn't seem quite appropriate for such a historic site.
In 1988 the kiosk was destroyed in a road traffic accident and never replaced.
Technically the aircraft could not bomb that accurately leaving blanket bombing as the only option and one that did disrupt German war production. The Harris stutue also serves to remind us of the huge losses born by aircrews to bring victory. When people are too lazy to exercise their right to vote they disrespect those of an earlier generation who gave their lives to maintain that right.
I suppose they must have 'upgraded' it to a K8 at some point. Does take away the uniqueness factor, given how many K8s been repurposed over the years into information booths on underground platforms (mostly District?) in a variety of colours.
I like the sentiment of your posting, but would remind you that regardless of serious bombing raids from 1941 onwards, German productivity continued to rise until the very end of 1944 and that, even though women were only brought back into the workplace from 1943 onwards. In Nazi ideology, the woman's place was in the home. KKK Kinder, Küche, Kirche - Children, Kitchen, Church was considered their status in life - Until Goebbels' 'Total War' Drive of 1943.
In the end it all came down to the losses of the Red, US and to a lesser extent the British Armies. Don't fall for the propaganda, the U.K. didn't win the war, it was on the winning side. Without the U.S.S.R & U.S.A; things would have looked a lot worse for the U.K.
I also think, that people fought even back then for freedom, the freedom to decide whether to take part (in elections) or remain anonymous. And they fought because they were in a win or lose situation. I doubt that apart from wanting freedom, they only were thinking of saving their own situations.
I'm not being disrespectful. I just think, you can't put up 2017 issues & hindsight as a reason for them fighting for what they thought right in the 1940s.
Memories do heal.
he mentions the Allied bombings of Cologne.
I visited the city in 1980, at which time the base of one of the spires of the cathedral, which had suffered a near direct hit, still had a red brick "patch" as infill for the part blown out by the bomb. We're not talking of just a few bricks... it had been a bleedin' enormous hole.
As reminders of the devastation that was can cause, I could think of few things more poignant to show - both to the locals and to international visitors - how close this grand building had been to being totally lost.
In my time there I never sensed any anti-British sentiment that could have suggested the damage was left visible as a way of saying 'look what those British bastards did!' - if there was any "message" at all it seemed to be more one of 'there but for the grace of God.'
I was back there a few years ago and it was actually a surprise to see that the spire had since been fully restored, in matching grey stone which completely hid the previous damage.
If the people of Cologne were ready to draw closure over past events (and the for those who don't know, the city was pretty much reduced to rubble), maybe that's one of the best ways for all of us to move forwards
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