please empty your brain below
Next time you’re riding the 497 dg, pop in for a cuppa. I live across the grass from the current terminus / driver’s loo stop.

Rob Healy | 07.03.23 - 7:11 a.m. | #

When they reduce bus services they don't usually measure their cuts in terms of bus kilometres.

Ian | 07.03.23 - 8:35 a.m. | #

At no point in the TfL press release do TfL make it clear that the extra 400,000/1,000,000 kilometres of bus services is per year.

Regards

zin92 | 07.03.23 - 9:03 a.m. | #

The removal of the 346 will seriously inconvenience those living on most of the route unless you live on Waycross Road or the terminus of the 248. If anything more people may decide to drive the short journey to Upminster. In addition is the service in the evening going to be reduced from 2 buses an hour to just 1?
I don’t think many people in Harold Wood are clamouring to get to Upminster - this section would be seriously over bussed.
All in all a smokescreen for doing precious little.

(Incidentally the road to Upminster Station is actually Station Road and not the High Street)

dg writes: tweaked, thanks.

Dave B | 07.03.23 - 10:01 a.m. | #

Their diagram of current routes for the 497 change doesn't make sense, they've mixed up the 248 and 346, the 248 should go the other way round, serve Upminsster Park and terminate at Cranham/Moor Lane, not as shown.

Still Anon | 07.03.23 - 10:21 a.m. | #

Looking at it, the issue is that its confusing, why show the 370, but not the 248 route going the other way round.

Still Anon | 07.03.23 - 10:56 a.m. | #

The reason the diagram makes no sense to you, Still Anon, is that you’ve misunderstood what it’s showing.

To be fair, the designers haven’t exactly helped by crossing out the numbers of the withdrawn routes.

The Patient Explainer | 07.03.23 - 11:14 a.m. | #

Part of the difficulty is that many people living in this part of Havering drive a lot, hence buses have relatively low patronage (although still a lot higher than neighbouring Brentwood), hence it is not deemed viable to maintain/increase bus service. Most cars in Havering and neighbouring districts outside London (Epping Forest, Brentwood, Thurrock) are ULEZ-compliant, so significant modal shift is unlikely, except among those who have a non-compliant car and cannot afford to exchange it for a compliant one. Contrary to what another comment says, I can assure you that there ARE people making trips between Harold Wood and Upminster, especially over the last few weekends when the Elizabeth line (which serves Harold Wood station) has had closures...the replacement bus service to Newbury Park is absurdly slow (to be honest, the roads connecting Elizabeth line stations are not very amenable to running an efficient bus route, as anybody who has travelled on the 86 bus can attest), so a lot of people get in their cars and go to Upminster station (which is served by c2c trains and the District Line)... to be honest, I have always wondered why TfL and Greater Anglia use Newbury Park as the hub for replacement bus services during GEML closures (the only reasonable explanations that occur to me are the massive car park at Newbury Park, its location directly on the A12, and TfL wanting to avoid having to pay compensation to c2c for ticket acceptance), when Upminster (which has a subtantial car park of its own and an easy turnaround for buses at the side entrance on platform 1) would be quicker and more convenient for replacement buses to/from Romford–Shenfield stations

anon | 07.03.23 - 11:52 a.m. | #

What is needed is new express/orbital routes, and much more out-county cross-border services for people who currently drive in from the Home Counties (and can’t vote against Khan). His public pronouncements seem ever more desperate, does he feel this is his Poll Tax moment?

Kim | 07.03.23 - 12:03 p.m. | #

“Modal shift” is always the buzz-phrase for transport plans, whether for the ULEZ or LTNs. But your analysis here reinforces the perpetual problem — unless there are tangible and genuine improvements in public transport (not just spin) before car restrictions are imposed, all that happens is growth in resentment from car drivers and more inconvenience for so many others. The carrot needs to precede the stick, not vice versa.

Labourer | 07.03.23 - 2:15 p.m. | #

Cross-border/out-county services aren't the remit of the Mayor or TfL, unless they provide a benefit to Greater London and its residents.

If people want to drive into Greater London, they can continue to do so. If they have an older, non-compliant vehicle, they can still use it, but will be subject to a charge. After all, if they choose to pollute London's atmosphere, it worsens the air that London residents breathe. Do I get a vote against those polluters?

Malc M | 07.03.23 - 10:41 p.m. | #











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