please empty your brain below
I think that this type of error is becoming more and more prolific in all areas, I see misspelt signage in shop windows on a daily basis, at least they are not putting the word "like" in front of their responses.

Fishislandskin | 08.08.15 - 7:10 a.m. | #

# Fishislandskin. Or the ubiquitous - So!

Jo W | 08.08.15 - 7:27 a.m. | #

Yes, bad signs is bad. But aren't you trying to have it both ways, DG, by criticising "Management" for having a "standard public response" (suggesting frequent errors) and then for inconsistency in the spelling (suggesting individual responses)?

And while quality is important, if there have to be (human) lapses, I'd prefer them to be in spelling, rather than, say, signalling.

Apologist | 08.08.15 - 7:27 a.m. | #

You can hardly blame the people erecting the sign, they just put up whatever they are given, no doubt they are a subcontractor or a subcontractor of a subcontractor, and no doubt have been allotted x amount of time to erect x number of signs.

The instructions that are usually given are that you should put up whatever you are given, its the responsibility of the organisation providing the sign to ensure it is correct.

| 08.08.15 - 7:42 a.m. | #

The "apologies" are of a typical grudging, corporate kind. The reference to "a small number" is irrelevant; the size and prominence of the signs make the errors stand out. It is in the same vein as "on this we occasion we regret we did not meet our usual high standards" - a phrase that reeks of arrogance rather than humility.

Waterhouse | 08.08.15 - 7:51 a.m. | #

How is your quality management, DG? May to August : "a couple of months apart"?

Malcolm | 08.08.15 - 7:58 a.m. | #

May 31st and August 7th are surely a couple of months apart. To say otherwise would be a rounding error.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 08.08.15 - 8:19 a.m. | #

May - June July - August. Yes, a couple of month between them ("few" would have been a safer word perhaps).

No sign of thanks for someone pointing out the error, or an apology, or a commitment to try to avoid making similar mistakes in the future? (Something other than the horrible "lessons will be learned" - which demands the rsponse, what lessons? and by whom?)

"Thank for letting us know about this problem. We are sorry we got it wrong. We'll fix it, and try not to do it again."

Andrew | 08.08.15 - 8:19 a.m. | #

Last time round, TfL weren't exactly apologetic.

When challenged by the Mercury, London Overground director Mike Stubbs laughed off the issue.

"It's the culture isn't it, always looking for something wrong rather than celebrating," he said.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 08.08.15 - 8:23 a.m. | #

They haven't replaced the signage overnight at all. They've just covered the misspelling with a sticker!

Of course, the new signage was put in to replace the previous signs, where the National Rail symbol had only been covered up with ... a sticker.

Dan | 08.08.15 - 8:33 a.m. | #

Re: DG comment above, where I work the culture we are proud of is "right first time" and never passing bad quality down the line. Snarky comments to the press just further damage the brand reputation.

Waterhouse | 08.08.15 - 8:57 a.m. | #

On the Tube the other day, idly reading the adverts above the seats (as you do), I noticed one from First Direct containing the word "avaiable".

We have one at work. Huge great wall poster advising internally of our "knowledgable" staff. Ouch.

Never ceases to amaze me, these typos/spelling mistakes from large organisations. Nobody in the whole process catches these things?

I can understand contractors being told just to put things up, but surely it would be better if, just before doing that, they called someone and said, "Er, just so you know... you're about to hit the press for being dolts, so are you sure you want us to go ahead with this?"

mightymouse | 08.08.15 - 9:08 a.m. | #

And this is why I visit DG daily.

Your posts crack me up

:o)

Marco | 08.08.15 - 9:12 a.m. | #

But that assumes that the (insert nationality of your choice) contractor has any idea of the correct spelling, for all they know they are the ones replacing misspelt signs.

Second my experience is that chains of command are now so complex that finding anyone responsible for anything is near impossible, so who do you contact? - who has the authority to say that you shouldn't put up the signs and can stop the job, so if you face questions from your employers as to why you didn't complete the job, YOU WILL STILL GET PAID, and you are legally covered.

On balance even if I know the signs are wrong - put them up anyway, I've done what I've been told to do, I'm not labelled a troublemaker, they can sue whoever made the signs.

| 08.08.15 - 10:14 a.m. | #

I'm fairly confident that English wasn't the first language of the two contractors putting up the signs at Theobalds Grove, plus that's a fairly obscure spelling mistake too.

But surely at least one person in the Walthamstow supply chain spotted something was amiss... and if not, then the installation process has a step missing.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 08.08.15 - 10:38 a.m. | #

It's all part of the modern speed-work ethic. We have to work so fast we don't have time to check our copy, so it goes straight to publishing (look at the local paper). So spelling mistakes get all the way through - much to the amusement/despair of the Twitterati, and anyone else who can spell.

The thing to remember is that just because it isn't red-lined doesn't necessarily mean its spelled right - it may be, it may be a totally different word (steak/stake anyone?).

Similarly, just because it is red-lined doesn't necessarily mean it's spelled wrongly. It could be that your SpellCheck program is set to a variant on English!

Otherwise I'm with Apologist - if they _must_ make mistakes better misspellings than wrongly connected signals.

Bronchitikat | Homepage | 08.08.15 - 10:40 a.m. | #

Accuracy and attention to detail should be embedded in the culture of any organisation, with safety-critical elements, from top to bottom. No exceptions. Carelessness is contagious. Sometimes mistakes are made, but being distraught about them is a more appropriate response than "laughing them off".

Max Roberts | 08.08.15 - 11:24 a.m. | #

Just beyond the gateline at Hammersmith station the District line diagram shows it calling at a mysterious station called Sloane Sqaure.

| 08.08.15 - 11:33 a.m. | #

Yep. And DG's post of a week ago had a photo of a waterside sign saying LIFEBOUY...

michaelH | 08.08.15 - 12:02 p.m. | #

Perhaps some people mentally Copy and Paste visual images, while others convert a word to a sound file and then regenerate the word, not always correctly?

I'm always surprised how many people reply to emails signed 'Gerry' by starting 'Hi, Jerry'. Similarly, some people still refer to 'Vodaphone', despite the brand name having being plastered all over the place for decades.

BTW, anyone remember the bus that went to Schepherds Bush Green? https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliveabrown/4154356034

Perhaps I'm fortunate, because I always 'see' words when I hear or speak them, but maybe others don't?

Gerry | 08.08.15 - 12:16 p.m. | #

And yet Bloemfontein Road is spelt perfectly on the front of that 283 which you would have thought is more difficult to get right!

| 08.08.15 - 12:36 p.m. | #

Accuracy equals confidence ( for the user ) and pride ( for the staff ) in the service being provided. I remember a sign at Bond Street tube saying Regents Park station was shut owing to a faulty escalator. When I pointed out the error ( it has lifts not escalators ) to the member of staff beside the board they just shrugged their shoulders and walked away. Shoddy!

ap | 08.08.15 - 2:56 p.m. | #

Interesting post DG. We all make mistakes, hopefully never catastrophic ones. What gets me is threefold. 1) repeated identical or similar errors, 2)responses in the style of 'if we have caused inconvenience we apologise', when it is glaringly obvious that inconvenience would have been caused, and most seriously 3)responses along the lines of 'it is trivial, we have more important things to worry about'. Why is the last so important? Because one does not know where such an organisation is drawing the line. At the margin, what they consider trivial might matter a great deal to an individual.

Julian | 08.08.15 - 3:07 p.m. | #

Gerry - I know exactly what you mean about 'seeing' words as you say them - but it works both ways. I have two friends called Cath and Kath and it wasn't until I introduced them to each other and said their names out loud that I realised they had the same name...

Sarah | Homepage | 08.08.15 - 4:17 p.m. | #

I must admit I like when major supermarkets pay thousands to advertising agencies to promote the sophistication of their international cuisine ranges... and then blow it all in the final cut when the voiceover artist (and clearly everyone else in the studio) shows they don't know how to correctly pronounce, say, prosciutto (M&S), or bruschetta (Tesco).
But it's probably OK for them inasmuch as I don't suppose too many of their target 'aspirant' audience even notice.

RogerW | 08.08.15 - 6:21 p.m. | #

Schepherds Bush/ "And yet Bloemfontein Road is spelt perfectly on the front of that 283"
The owner of Scanbus was a Finn, (hence the colour scheme) which may explain the spelling quirks. I was very familiar with the 283 as I used to take it to work - in fact, that was my office in the background of the picture

| 08.08.15 - 10:16 p.m. | #

Hmmm, it's funny how the knives are out for TfL. I do hope some of you never make a jury! Often in print it is not the fault of the client, sometimes the print firm gets it wrong, misinterprets locations, directions etc etc.

TfL I doubt would have their own internal print facilities, so I would look closely at the contractor and their quality assurance strategies.

I would put good money on whoever authorised the print run, to be the point where the blame can attributed.

Kelvin | 09.08.15 - 3:11 a.m. | #

@ Kelvin - while you're right that the error may have been caused by the contractor I'd be surprised if they wilfully misinterpreted the spec they were given. TfL signage schemes are set out in great detail including wording, dimensions, font, pantone etc etc. I used to run part of the process for procuring new signs! I would still expect both TfL and the contractor to employ a QA stage.

There is also the fact these "Waltamstow" signs replaced ones that were spelt correctly. Further there are signs, also correctly spelt, within metres of where these new signs were installed. Plenty of opportunity for the "penny to drop" if anyone was minded to pause for a moment.

PC | 09.08.15 - 9:54 a.m. | #

Happened to spot your 'Waltamstow' photo. Made me laugh: reminded me of how Walthamstow was usually pronounced when I was at the William Morris School in the 60s. Great photo, thanks.

g.chingford | 09.08.15 - 2:55 p.m. | #

How come TfL are being allowed to get rid of the National Rail symbol? Putting a orange TfL roundel is at best confusing, worst it could be seen as the start of them creating their own rail network with separate ticketing structures etc

leverblanc | 09.08.15 - 5:05 p.m. | #

@ Leverblanc: TfL has never used the National Rail symbol because it's not a National Rail operator. It runs urban and and suburban services represented by the famous roundel symbol in an ever-increasing variety of flavours.

Using the National Rail arrows would cause endless confusion;you'd get people asking for a ticket to Oban and ending up at Holborn !

The nearest that TfL gets to National Rail is the Overground which operates to National Rail standards.

TfL Rail is merely an interim stage which will be re-branded with the Crossrail roundel when the shiny new trains are running.

Gerry | 09.08.15 - 5:23 p.m. | #

But you can buy through tickets at these stations to destinations such as Leeds, Brighton. It is part of the national rail network - if not why are services advertised on the NR website, included in the printed NR timetable. London Overground railways even won the best TOC award in a NR competition. Signalling, track maintenance tgeon most lines iz done by NR. What is confusing is TfL being allowed to rebrand services as separate when the NR symbol is used in England, Scotland and Wales to let people know this is a TRAIN station. Why not allow Southern, First Capital Connect etc to do away with it as well?

leverblanc | 09.08.15 - 5:52 p.m. | #

@ Leverblanc: RAILWAY station, please !

Worst Capital Connect has itself been 'done away with', thankfully... it's Thameslink now.

Less flippantly, Walthamstow Central station is operated by TfL and now has only TfL services, so it would be very confusing to keep showing the National Rail symbol. Historical oddities can be fun (spot the VR postboxes and the Coal and Wine Tax posts) but it's unhelpful where people are seeking up to date directions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-tax_post

It would be like the BT Tower having the Post Office logo on the top.

Rightly or wrongly, the ownership of the rail service has changed, so the signage must be updated to reflect this.

Gerry | 09.08.15 - 6:22 p.m. | #

Well, I suppose that explains the very obvious sticker over the station signpost that I spotted when I just happened to be in Walthamstow yesterday. I vaguely thought it was some kind of stop-gap cover for Abellio branding, and never imagined the cause was as embarrassing as that!

swirlythingy | Homepage | 09.08.15 - 7:48 p.m. | #

But lots of railway stations in Britain have just one TOC and they have all maintained the NR symbol. It is still the commonly accepted sign for a place where a railway service is provided throughout the whole country. Should Orpington now also ditch it and just have the southeastern sign? The whole idea of a single unified railway is still a popular idea and has widespread public support. If this idea comes back in the future and turns again into a political reality then it will be interesting to see if the involvement and absurd branding by quangos like TfL will continue. LOROL services are still just one of some 15-20 TOCs that operate on London's railways. It doesn't make sense for them to declare UDI on the rest of the network.

leverblanc | 09.08.15 - 8:40 p.m. | #

Rather a late comment. I partly agree with the regret at Overground services losing the national rail symbol. But it only brings it into line with the Underground, which has never had the symbol. Effectively, the double-arrow has always meant "Trains (other than Underground-trains) here". Nowadays it means "Trains (other than Under-Over-ground trains) here".

Malcolm | 09.08.15 - 8:59 p.m. | #

@ Leverblanc: No, my understanding is that the branding reflects the organisation that manages the station (and sets the fares).

Brentwood still has only one TOC but as the station is now managed by TfL Rail, it's been re-branded with the roundel. Shenfield has both TfL Rail and Abellio services but is still managed by Abellio and hence branded with the NR arrowheads.

Orpington won't be branded with SER logos because they are only the franchise holder and these can change quite frequently (as Connex, FCC and Serco can testify). TfL is a bit more permanent !

Hopefully TfL will take over the Metro service to Sevenoaks in 2018, so I'd expect to see TfL manage Knockholt and Dunton Green and brand them with Overground roundels, whereas Orpington and Sevenoaks will be managed by the new franchisee and retain their NR arrowheads.

Chelsfield has both Metro and Mainline services, so presumably it might have both roundels and arrowheads.

But you'll be pleased to see that Google Maps agrees with you. It shows London Overground stations (e.g. Wapping, Rotherhithe) as arrowheads, but if you hover on them it pops up with just the roundel ! https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5028991,-0.0543478,16z

Gerry | 09.08.15 - 10:02 p.m. | #

These ridiculous mistakes are being made more and more often in the media, on signs, newspapers, websites, etc etc. Last year I arrived back at Heathrow Terminal 5 to be greeted by a glossy sign above a broken escalator stating "Fight Connections"

Daveid76 | 09.08.15 - 10:29 p.m. | #

All the meeting-rooms at my office have a fire-safety notice put there by our facilities management people which includes such gems as "Fire Bridgade", "On heraing the alram" and "Do not re-eneter the building". Doesn't entirely make you feel you're in safe hands.

Baldassaro | 10.08.15 - 9:21 a.m. | #

A few years back there were comments in "Buses" magazine about a bus destination blind display reading
"Stratfod", and a bus stop flag proclaiming to be at "Trafalger Square".
More recently after a redesign of the London & South East rail map that removed a number of stations in the Birmingham area and the West of England the next edition continued
to include several stations in the index which were now not on the map. I wrote to ATOC pointing this out and received a very apologetic reply from a quite senior person who admitted that had failed to spot this when passing the copy for printing.
The next edition which removed the names unfortunately omitted to show the Isle of Wight as land, with the Island's railways and ferry terminals apparently in mid-Channel!

3078260061 | 10.08.15 - 10:52 a.m. | #

leverblanc has a serious point about through ticketing, you should be able to buy the same range of National Rail tickets whether you go to say Enfield Town or Enfield Chase, but by removing the National Rail symbol from Enfield Town you give the impression that this is not possible, its a bit like the out of station interchanges, only those 'in the know' know - very Yes Minister.

| 10.08.15 - 3:58 p.m. | #

@3078260061

For quite a while Southeastern ignored the rules about not using rip-off 0845 numbers for Customer Service, and even today its website is still littered with banned 0845 numbers, and its latest timetable booklets still show the old 0843 number that TfL abandoned years ago.

Similarly, National Rail claims that its Premium Rate Train Tracker costs 'only' 10p/min, whereas the true cost is 17p/min with BT and a massive 57p/min with Vodafone.

Sneakily, National Rail claims that the 'Consumer Contracts: Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments Regulations' don't apply because NR doesn't sell tickets. Yet NR is effectively the Association of Train Operating Companies, all of whose members certainly do sell tickets.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/18.aspx#tt

The Access Charge can be eye-wateringly expensive, 44p/min with EE and 45p/min with Vodafone ! In its infinite wisdom, Ofcom does not even classify these numbers as Premium Rate, not has it moved them to the 09 range.

TfL has scored a hat trick of blunders with its 0845 Overground Assisted Travel number. https://tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/contact-us-about-accessibility

It starts by stating that 24 hours' notice is required for Overground Assisted travel, contradicting LOROL which states that it is a Turn Up And Go service that does not need to be booked in advance. http://www.lorol.co.uk/go/travel/accessibility

Perhaps TfL and LOROL should speak to each other?

But it gets worse, much worse. TfL is simultaneously breaking:-
  1. the Equality Act (by charging disabled callers much more than people without disabilities)

  2. the 'Consumer Contracts: Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments Regulations' (by using an expensive 0845 number for Customer Service)

  3. Ofcom's 'UK Calling' Regulations (by failing to state that "Calls cost 5p per minute plus your phone company's Access Charge".
Sorry for going slightly off topic, but corporate sleight of hand and price misrepresentation seems even worse than contractors' mistakes with signage.

Gerry | 10.08.15 - 4:23 p.m. | #

This sign needs a picture of a Womble on it. I doubt there's anyone brought up in the UK who is in there 40s now who doesn't start singing the theme tune to themselves when they see these overground underground signs.
Cheers
Tony.

Bikesy | Homepage | 12.08.15 - 2:17 p.m. | #











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