please empty your brain below
This is not what I hoped to read on the blog this morning. I don't want to read about this. What will I read over breakfast now? Please try harder to be relevant and interesting.

Dissatisfied Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:05 a.m. | #

I remember all the fuss when they took cash off the buses. People yelled and screamed like the world was ending... but we hear no complaints today. You can't stop progress.

Pragmatic Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:11 a.m. | #

People still use cash? I wonder how they function in wider society? Perhaps they should get a card? Am I the only person thinking this? Seriously?

Questioning Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:18 a.m. | #

You forgot to mention the high cost of emptying the machines. I was surprised you didn't mention the risk of vandalism. I would not have written it like this.

Frustrated Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:22 a.m. | #

This cannot be about safety otherwise they'd have done it months ago. TfL is an evil organisation and everyone who works for them is utterly incompetent.

Exaggerating Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:31 a.m. | #

I think you'll find Stratford also accepts cash because it's a National Rail station. Also technically it's Shadwell Overground station that takes cash, not the DLR station.

Pedantic Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:47 a.m. | #

I miss the days when you would go out and write about somewhere interesting. Please get your act together so I can remain indoors and read about your wider travels.

Exasperated Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:52 a.m. | #

I don't use cash any more. I haven't used cash for years. I literally do not understand why anyone might find this difficult.

Blinkered Commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:59 a.m. | #

I'm really surprised that I wasn't the first commenter. ;-)

Surprised Commenter | Homepage | 09.08.20 - 8:13 a.m. | #

Seems unlikely that the spelling error in the penultimate paragraph is not deliberate, so I feel scared to mention it.

Bullied Commenter | 09.08.20 - 8:23 a.m. | #

Is today one of the posts which will be added to as the day goes on, as we fill out the bingo card of comments?

Meta Commenter | 09.08.20 - 8:44 a.m. | #

There's a now out-of-date FoI request on WhatDoTheyKnow asking about the different payment types: [pdf]

It seems this request was made around the time when cash became less popular than debit cards in the UK in general.

Jon Jones | 09.08.20 - 8:52 a.m. | #

Better take an umbrella out with you next week if you travelling.

Irrelevent commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:06 a.m. | #

I want to read another blog in which DG regularly comments.

Another commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:14 a.m. | #

These aren’t the best self-written comments that I’ve ever seen. I would have done it differently. Surely you can do better?

Hilarious Commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:21 a.m. | #

Now that the spelling error has been rectified, my earlier comment looks stupid. But I feel less stressed.

ex-Bullied Commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:29 a.m. | #

Great stuff DG.

Evaluative commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:51 a.m. | #

Please write more posts about kittens.

Debster | 09.08.20 - 9:58 a.m. | #

The ticket machines at Crystal Palace never seem to read my bank card properly. They keep rejecting it even when the Tesco cash point round the corner accepts it no problem. I really hope TfL get them fixed before the Overground goes cashless.

South London Commentator | 09.08.20 - 10:04 a.m. | #

The only time since March I've actually spent cash money was at a cheese stall in Stroud Market for a chunk of Single Gloucester. The farmer was strictly cash-only and had lots of change (somehow). Otherwise, cashless society seems to have been rolled out whether anyone likes it or not.

Is a new "emergency money card" going to have to take the place of the "emergency £10 note stash"? And in the event of losing one's cards, are the banks going (further) to speed up their replacement?

I'll leave a conspiratorialist to make "track and trace" jokes

Interrupting Commentor | 09.08.20 - 10:08 a.m. | #

On my local bus in France you cannot pay by card. They even sell discounted frequent traveller carnets for cash.

ap | 09.08.20 - 10:12 a.m. | #

Now doing the commenting for us? Where does that leave the community of regular and irregular commenters?

Perturbed commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:13 a.m. | #

The lowest fares in the country and you're still complaining.

Obtuse Commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:20 a.m. | #

Oh, I remember cash! *paragraph long story about a 'funny' cash based anecdote that was only funny to two people, and in context*

Nostalgic Commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:28 a.m. | #

I think this was their plan all along and they're just using Coronavirus as an excuse to push it through quicker without a chance for passengers to complain first.

Cynical Commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:29 a.m. | #

Paying by chip card, Oyster cash card or by mobile app... still a rarity in Germany. London is way ahead.

German shops and restaurants mostly insist on cash. In some larger chains you can pay by bank card (usually debit, not credit). Only the other day I had insufficient cash to pay for an order in a restaurant. They didn't accept cards so I had to traipse off in search of a bank ATM and then come back to pay.

One thing which has given the inertia here a slight kick up the rear is the Corona virus. Supermarkets have signs up saying "please pay by card".

Will get there eventually. Another 5+ years perhaps. But in Germany cash is still king.

Kevin | 09.08.20 - 10:31 a.m. | #

Track and trace, I think I know what that's a cover for.....using 5G too to track every last movement and financial transaction. Police will stop and search people for cash in their pockets and demand explanations for this suspious situation.

Qui bono, eh?

Conspiratorial commentator | 09.08.20 - 10:32 a.m. | #

THEY want to get rid of cash entirely. Once we have to use cards for everything, the government will have total control and can block you from travelling or buying anything with the press of a key. You have been warned sheeple!

Paranoid commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:32 a.m. | #

I have not used public transport since the lockdown, walking and working from home. Not that I am complaining! I prefer oyster too as I don’t like dangling my wallet around tube barriers

Locked down commentator | 09.08.20 - 10:34 a.m. | #

I was one of the people who complained when they got rid of cash on buses (despite only using cash once a month myself at my local barbers) - as the people who use cash tend to be the poor and marginalised.

This latest move seems to be prioritising TfL staff over the poor and marginalised. Although I'm sure the Mayor would deny that.

Not a Socialist Commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:41 a.m. | #

Thought provoking post. The cash/card dilemma seems to now be polarised into places taking only one or the other. Admittedly the only places I go to that are cash only are i) a local deli, and ii) a sandwich shop near City Thameslink that I haven't actually been to in 5 months.

But some questions:
a) How are the marginalised getting cash at present, let alone spending it?
b) What is the continuing logic for any contactless limit, let alone £45, given that we are encouraged to do bigger shops and don't want people touching buttons?
c) If the Government again proposed doing away with copper coins (originally proposed in March 18), what would the reaction be now?

Will | 09.08.20 - 10:58 a.m. | #

Something tells me this maybe isn’t (just) about TfL going cashless...

Sam | 09.08.20 - 11:00 a.m. | #

Firmly in the conspiracy camp, you can no longer pay with cash at un-staffed stations in order to protect staff, this is just done to remove the overheads of handling cash - but using C-19 as cover.

|The groups more likely to be inconvenienced by this are those less likely to have access to banking, yes there is still Oyster, but you usually pay for that at newsagents - a business usually run by another group vulnerable to C-19.

The elimination of physical money does make it easier to inflict negative interest rates on the general population in the future.

Still Anon | 09.08.20 - 11:01 a.m. | #

This has been the norm with ticket machines at unstaffed stations on large parts of the national rail network for ages - mostly initially as a security device to stop the machines being raided for cash. It can be a bloody nuisance though if you have cash you want to be rid of, although the rules have been that you could use cash to buy a ticket on-train (or ultimately if required at your destination) if that is how you wanted to pay. Obviously no such give will exist within TfL regs, not least as you'd have to get through barriers somewhere on most journeys, as you would not in, say, rural Glos.

Trainspotting correspondent | 09.08.20 - 11:11 a.m. | #

Yes, more kittens please!

Debster-like commenter | 09.08.20 - 11:47 a.m. | #

Hi DG!
I've got some amazing information that I think your readers will just love!

Marketing Commenter | 09.08.20 - 12:01 p.m. | #

Re: your penultimate paragraph - Oh for a future where you could pay your fares in Mars Bars!

Inconsequential Commenter | 09.08.20 - 12:21 p.m. | #

The game today is to guess the actual number of comments written by DG and also the number written by the Readers. Enter your answers here...

Competition Geek | 09.08.20 - 12:29 p.m. | #

I only use Chip & Pin on my cards, they do not have contactless facility.

Andrew Jarman | 09.08.20 - 12:48 p.m. | #

Loving the comments today!

Lurking commenter | 09.08.20 - 1:14 p.m. | #

In 2019 there were 1.2 million people in the UK without a bank account who were already paying a premium of ~£500 a year for their omission.

I hope TfL considered London specific numbers before making this change.

TomH | 09.08.20 - 1:27 p.m. | #

You can still buy Oysters with cash for the moment.

Devious commenter | 09.08.20 - 2:17 p.m. | #

Trainspotting commenter - If you're paying on the train, or on arrival, it counts as a debt so they are obliged to accept legal tender i.e. cash.

legalistic commenter | 09.08.20 - 2:26 p.m. | #

Can a penalty fare be imposed or a prosecution succeed if a passenger were able and willing to pay cash but TfL refused to accept it? So much for inclusivity and equality...

Dot Do Dot Commenter | 09.08.20 - 2:41 p.m. | #

Here's the official definition of legal tender, just in case anyone was unsure.

Reactive Commenter | 09.08.20 - 2:44 p.m. | #

Here in Brussels you can still pay with cash.

Peripheral Foreign Commentator | 09.08.20 - 3:38 p.m. | #

I don't really understand how people are getting so much cash - for me, people giving me cash is a right nuisance. c

Confused Commenter | 09.08.20 - 3:40 p.m. | #

Being an awkward so and so, I have found myself using cash more recently despite the fact contactless is easier.

I feel like we are sleepwalking into being cashless without any debate. Seriously, has there actually been a study into the Covid 19 risks of cash? Everyone just seems to be accepting it's dodgy but I haven't seen anything to actually say why? I appreciate people taking money from someone's hand may have a risk factor. But that could be mitigated by changing the process to put the money on the counter. But risks from machines?

I am not saying it's not risky. Just I would like to see the evidence it is.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 09.08.20 - 4:00 p.m. | #

Ah a different post for a CHANGE

smartie boots commenter | 09.08.20 - 4:01 p.m. | #

This comment has been rated on the DG Comment Value Hierarchy (2015) as a 5a.

Reminiscing commenter | 09.08.20 - 4:39 p.m. | #

The longest queues I see around here aren't for bars/restaurants but for cash machines.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.08.20 - 4:44 p.m. | #

Just another example of stuffing anyone who isn't 100% up to date whether it be having bank cards or smart phones. Driven by convenience for the supplier not the customer.

Had a good example this morning, wanted to update my Waitrose delivery for tomorrow (by noon), at 11.15 unable to access the website. 'Please try again'. I did, 20 + times, no go. It's time for a revolution!

Anecdotal Commenter | 09.08.20 - 6:28 p.m. | #

The banknotes in my wallet right now have been there since the start of the pandemic.

Stingy commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:10 p.m. | #

This is the biggest controversy I've seen round here since the days of

"Doughnuts (or is it donuts?) Are they better with or without holes?"

AND HOW SHOULD YOU PAY FOR THEM?

Fourth Time Today commenter | 09.08.20 - 7:53 p.m. | #

I Just glad I'm still working from home and don't have to commute into central London tomorrow.

Sweaty commenter | 09.08.20 - 8:26 p.m. | #

The early comments this morning were nicely spaced out every few minutes. But now, there are large time gaps between comments.
Could we have a blog about comment timebands, please?

Real commenter | 09.08.20 - 8:32 p.m. | #

The only use I have for cash now are for chicken shops who haven't modernised.

Hungry Commenter | 09.08.20 - 9:18 p.m. | #

The day cash dies so will my heart

Aggrieved Commentator | 09.08.20 - 10:08 p.m. | #

Commenter - 24
commenter - 15
Commentor - 1
Commentator - 3
commentator - 2

Grammatical Commenter | 09.08.20 - 10:50 p.m. | #

A lot of independent businesses are still cash only. For example go along Green Street and you'll see many a sign saying they don't take cards and it's not put them out of business. The switch to card payment has not been at a universal rate across London and there are areas and parts of the community where cash payment is still common place. Upton Park is one of the stations still taking cash (along with every other tube station in Newham bar West Ham) and I suspect dropping cash payments round here would cause a lot of protests well above the generic opposition.

Tim Roll-Pickering | 09.08.20 - 10:56 p.m. | #

Certainly won’t be the last measure we see which saves a provider shedloads of expense and - mirabile dictu! - protects us all against COVID. Just like asking us to take our litter home is all about protecting us from terrorists putting bombs in bins and nothing to do with saving on emptying them, oh no.
Bah.

David | 10.08.20 - 6:14 a.m. | #

No Cash does indeed further marginalise the already-marginalised. Particularly as bank accounts become more and more difficult to open without 12 different types of ID and records. Thankfully you can still buy and top up Oyster with cash at local shops, but TfL want to eventually do without the overhead of Oyster as well!

On the flip side, it's utterly infuriating to go to the Netherlands or Germany where cash is king. At least the more touristy places are used to having to send bemused foreigners around the corner to the local cashpoint. The peculiar Dutch habit of accepting only Dutch bank cards can drive you bananas, as you watch the five people ahead of you pay by card only to have yours rejected.

Chz | 10.08.20 - 9:05 a.m. | #

The Dutch do accept international cards - as long as they are maestro or vpay cards. These cards may be rare in the UK, but they do exists (e.g. revolut).

In Germany many (smaller) shops accept only Girocard (formerly known as ec-Karte) and this card is really Germany only.

MK | 10.08.20 - 10:52 a.m. | #

Cash isn't the Messiah, it's a very naughty boy.

Irreverent Commentator | 10.08.20 - 3:28 p.m. | #

There may not be any kittens here for some time, but this one is good in the meantime.

BS | 10.08.20 - 8:40 p.m. | #

Wakey wakey all ye Wokers. Cash is impersonal and joyously anonymous. Tfl have simply transferred cash-handling duties to Ye Mars Bars shoppes instead. Part of the ignoble charge and change to finger-print/palm scans thence onwards and downwards to barrier-free retinal scans "in order to facilitate quick and easy access due to the inevitable increase in passengers, sorry customers" (or automatons by then.) Look it up if you want to be disabused before the abuse of privacy in the future arrives. The tech is here, waiting in the wings right now.

Plenty peeps abhor the intrusion of digital money and the loss of control the GenPop have over their OWN earnings and savings.

Picture the power bleatingly handed over. Govt says you ain't paid nuff tax. Yes I have. Nope there's this new one and we've taken it already anyway. Thank you citizen. I'm minded to finish with Starship Troopers' "Would you like to know more?" !

Jp | 12.08.20 - 1:55 a.m. | #











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