please empty your brain below
Thank you! I might have known it wasn’t so simple.

If you declassify a B-road in a forest, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Dan | 05.01.22 - 7:44 a.m. | #

Because it cites its sources, we can see that OpenStreetMap got its B116 classification for Balaam Street from the Ordinance Survey’s open data.

So perhaps the OS originated this error (if it is an error!)

Dan | 05.01.22 - 8:04 a.m. | #

5th January - the first interesting info nugget of the year.

It's always reassuring to know that the authorities aren't entirely sure what's going on.

Still Anon | 05.01.22 - 8:15 a.m. | #

Is it one of the OS's deliberate mistakes to catch out copyright thieves?

dg writes: no, they don't do that.

Andy V | 05.01.22 - 9:00 a.m. | #

I had no problem to open the "OS Open USRN" geopackage in QGIS, but where is the authorative data for linking USRN with classification/road number data? Maybe "OS Open Names" or "OS Open Roads" from the same source? I don't see any relevant downloads at Geoplace.

The geopackage contains USRN 22700175 for a "Designated Street Name" from Bow Flyover to Merchant Street and USRN 22700008 for a "Numbered Street" from Bow Flyover to Middlesex Street, but neither name nor number. 22700008 is unknown in FindMyStreet.

Redoute | 05.01.22 - 9:09 a.m. | #

Good morning, another excellent post.
You state that using findmystreet you can zoom in on a specific road to discover ... who's responsible for it.
What it actually shows is the upper tier authority and the lower tier authority for the area in which the road is, either one of which may be the Highway Authority responsible for maintaining the road. The same information is shown for Private Roads and for Highways Not Maintainable at Public Expense where maintenance is (usually) the responsibility of the frontagers and hence neither tier authority is engaged.

strawbrick | 05.01.22 - 9:26 a.m. | #

It was the B166 as late as 1966 in the Ordnance Survey map here

HTFB | 05.01.22 - 9:29 a.m. | #

The OS Freedom of Information answer is very carefully worded to deal only with street names. Certainly in the pre-digital era, deliberate errors were inserted in some maps. An example in Canterbury became somewhat prominent when it appeared as part of the extract used on the cover of the Phillips/OS local street atlas.

Man of Kent | 05.01.22 - 9:32 a.m. | #

Re the "deliberate mistakes". I've never heard about OS maps doing this but do remember a MapMan programme on TV that looked at the London AZ (either Collins or Geographers, can't remember,last street originally - and I think still is - Zofany At) and they certainly do add fictitious roads for copyright purposes.

Putters | 05.01.22 - 9:49 a.m. | #

IN the 2004 AA London Street by Street, its clearly B116. All other places have it as 166.

Chr0me | 05.01.22 - 10:00 a.m. | #

A keyword search returns data for the B116 and Balaam Street, actually two separate records with the same northing and easting. The keyword search returns nothing for 'B166'.

In reply to Redoute at 9:09am, place names are available for download from OS Open Names.

Joachim | 05.01.22 - 10:51 a.m. | #

I had always assumed (turns out incorrectly) that road numbering was intended to identify a core route network with the intention of enabling the efficient delivery of people and goods.

Given there seems to be no requirement for B-roads to be passable by any particular vehicle, and the status seemingly not conferring and particular privileges, why bother with B-roads in built-up areas at all?

Michael T | 05.01.22 - 10:55 a.m. | #

How odd! Indeed a mystery - should someone wish to dig deeper!

Cornish Cockney | 05.01.22 - 11:00 a.m. | #

Looking in OSM the "declassified" section of the B118 (e.g. Old Bethnal Green Road) was reclassified (by an OSM member, as any member can edit the map) as a residential road a year ago and instead of being given a "ref" of B118, was instead given an "official_ref" of B118.

In OSM, "official_ref" is for - The official reference for administrative or governmental handling. For example, the county-specific C-road network, where references exist but are not generally intended for public display or use. Such references appear in legally required notifications about roadworks and road closures.

So in this case it's legally still a B road, but not one in everyday terms!

Mikey C | 05.01.22 - 11:15 a.m. | #

Just to note that there is now a lively thread on the OSM mailing list about this post.

You can follow the thread here.
This post looks plausible to me.

Ken | 05.01.22 - 4:28 p.m. | #

That www.findmystreet.co.uk/map link is cool, thanks. My Ilford street has 9 UK equivalents named from an Edinburgh suburb, the nearest not far off in lovely Lambeth.

Noel | 05.01.22 - 4:54 p.m. | #

I would expect Balaam Street to be B666.

yerrong | 05.01.22 - 4:56 p.m. | #

Have I missed it, or has someone explained what a B road is?
We all know how motorways are legally different from trunk roads, etc. but how is a B road different from a C or unclassified road nowadays?

dg repeats: "You can read their comprehensive list of guidance on road classification and the primary route network here."

RogerB | 05.01.22 - 10:31 p.m. | #

Thank you for the link. Trying to understand what a B road is physically seems to result in a traditional British muddle.

RogerB | 06.01.22 - 10:17 a.m. | #











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