please empty your brain below
It does seem like the proposed services result in a dramatic enhancement in the frequency of the Hammersmith leg at the expense of everything else. The Circle and Wimbleware services along with the Whitechapel end of the H&C all run every 8 minutes at present, looks like they'll be pegged back to every 10. And HSK - Earls Court - Olympia down from four trains an hour to three..

(which messes up any interface there might have been with the half-hourly West London Line service at Olympia, even if that was only accidental in the first place. At a time when the Overground service and station there are getting busier, it would make more sense for LU to improve the service to it rather than cutting it back.)

Granted, if there aren't enough trains to go round then that's that - if they can actually get this new arrangement to work then there's more to be gained from a reliable and slightly less frequent service, I'm sure. If they get it to work.

Nico | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 3:30 a.m. | #

Just heads up about the Whitechapel off peak service, the Whitechapel terminaters will be done away with and the trains will now terminate at either Plaistow or Barking.

The Tea Cup service has been around for the past couple of years and has finally come into being.

Hopefully it works and gives the customers a better Circle line service with more scope for a quicker recovery time when service distruption hit Circle and H&C lines.

District line services out of Olympia should improve as well as plans are to make the turn around time quicker

Blunt Bloke (ex Station Superv | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 5:33 a.m. | #

It sounds like TfL are moving from a less reliable Circle line service to a less frequent Circle line service. I'm not convinced that's an improvement all passengers will welcome.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 6:57 a.m. | #

I've just noticed that all the mock up maps for the new line include Blackfriars station.

Erm

IanVisits | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 8:41 a.m. | #

Good grief. What moaning.

The only confusion is that you might have to change trains if you want to go though Edgeware Road (H+C) which is hardly an issue as you always did have to do this if you had come up the District Line from Wimbledon anyway.

I guess if 100\\% of your tube time is spent going from Baywater to Baker Street this might be a pain, but having a more reliable circle service on the rest of the line, especially at the busy Aldgate end makes sense than maintaining a circle.

The new workings just reveal how the line was anyway, and do not detract from the fact you can still travel around in a circle.

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 9:16 a.m. | #

Surely this will also solve the Circle Line train wheel problems where the trains had to be flipped around from time to time to stop them becoming lopsided due to uneven wear?

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 9:18 a.m. | #

Meant to say, I agree that Paddington's H&C "station" should be called "Upper Paddington" or "Paddington West" (or even "Paddington Bear" perhaps) to avoid the confusion about there being two stations on different "ends" of the line with the same name but in different places but connected to the same station...

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 9:23 a.m. | #

Whilst we are at it, why not rename the Bakerloo "Edgware Road" Station to "Westway"? Sounds so much more dynamic and would advoid the confusion now we can write "100m" between them?

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 9:28 a.m. | #

Mind you I still don't know why the "Hammersmith and City" line has not yet been contracted to the "Hammercity Line"...

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 10:23 a.m. | #

or indeed "Hamcity Line".

Briantist | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 10:24 a.m. | #

If I want to travel from Bayswater to Ladbroke Grove, am I best advised to:
- take the Circle and change at Paddington?
- take the Circle and change at Edgware Road?
- take another tube route?
- take the bus?
- take a cab?
- walk?
- stay in Bayswater and wait for Ladbroke Grove to come to me?

graybo | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 11:11 a.m. | #

& when you've explained the new Circle Line & they've grasped it, you can go on to the Offside Rule, & even Cricket!

bronchitikat | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 11:39 a.m. | #

What is bad about running a line in a circle? It avoids all the hassle with turning trains round at terminals (e.g. the driver walking from end to end, changing the lights round and working out which train will go first). I believe in New York at least some of the subway lines have a loop at the end so rather than come to a buffer stop they just go round in a circle again and then start their jounrney the other way immediatly.

Jon Combe | 06.03.09 - 1:02 p.m. | #

Jon, its one thing to to have a loop at the end of the line. Thats fine. We have it ourselves at the end of the Picadilly line and the Central line has a really big one that can be used. Even better is Kennington which has a big loop (although nowadays there are complications as you have to check that passengers don't go round on it). Trains can pause on the loop (e.g. at Terminal 4 station) without getting in the way of everything else.

The problem is that no railway line in the world has successfully run a decent service in a circle. It just creates too many operating diffuculties.

In Oslo they run a "posthorn" line only so as not to confuse the punters the train morphs from a line 4 train to a line 6 train as it goes round.

Pedantic of Purley | 06.03.09 - 2:01 p.m. | #

Ooh ooh I want to go round on the loop please.

Suse | 06.03.09 - 3:20 p.m. | #

So what you're saying is, the actual change in service is a good thing, it's just the name "Circle" that you don't like? Don't worry DG, we tourists aren't all stupid, we'll figure it out! (Especially those of us who read your blog, of course.)

Josh | 06.03.09 - 4:15 p.m. | #

So what I'm saying is, the actual change in service might be a good thing, for certain people, on certain journeys. Apparently TfL have contingency plans to revert back to normal after a few months if it doesn't work.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 4:22 p.m. | #

What will happen to the tramps and other dozers who would (reputedly?) join a circle line train and then grab a few hours kip?!

Ian | Homepage | 06.03.09 - 4:57 p.m. | #

Hmm, I see what you're saying. If you commute on the Circle from Bayswater to Euston Square then the change in service isn't a good thing for you, even with the reliability improvements they're hoping to achieve.

Josh | 06.03.09 - 7:42 p.m. | #

I'd suggest always changing at Mornington Crescent.

pop artist | 06.03.09 - 8:24 p.m. | #

First BoJo bans alcohol on the tube, and now TfL are doing what geometrically should be impossible - giving the Circle Line a definite start and a definite end at Hammersmith and Edgware Road. It looks like the days of the Circle Line pub crawl are pretty much numbered.

Let's just hope it's worth it, and we get a more reliable Circle-with-a-sticky-out-bit Line service as a result. I don't use the Circle Line that often, but I think even I know how it's going to end up...

Andrewh | 07.03.09 - 1:24 a.m. | #

As someone who commutes through Paddington on a daily basis, what scares me is that all direct trains from Paddington to Baker Street and the City will run from the H&C platform. Even today the one (!) single (!) staircase leading there is always overcrowded in the rush hours and doesn't cope with the flow of commuters. This will certainly become worse when there is no equal share of travellers from Baker St to both Paddington tube platforms any more.

Changing trains at Edgware Road is no good option as it often involves changing platforms, and they often do not let you know from which platform the next train to Bayswater will leave.

Also, the First Great Western facilities are minimal at the walkway to the H&C platform. Passengers will end up walking all the way back to the main concourse to get their tickets and coffees. What do FGW and Network Rail think about this entire matter?

The state of affairs at the H&C platform will become dire unless they build a second walkway to the platform and more ticket machines (for the tube and for the trains). But that's not going to happen I fear ...

greendoctor | 19.03.09 - 4:10 p.m. | #











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