please empty your brain below
For any comments about Double Summer Time, please go to yesterday's comments box instead. Thanks.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 1:00 a.m. | #

Or we just have GMT+1 all year, no switching at all, ever.

Max Roberts | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 6:54 a.m. | #

You know I have never really thought about that but it does seem strange. I assume there must be some historical reason for it.

As I understand it DST start during the second world war. So I would have thoght there would be records of why these dates were chosen. Unless they were more evenly spaced to start with and for whatever reason the dates got moved about until we have ended up with what we have now.

Barry | 25.02.11 - 7:23 a.m. | #

...erm, Barry, I'd suggest you read the links under the para starting, "Our Daylight Saving changeover dates are regulated by European legislation."

Blue Witch | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 7:26 a.m. | #

...erm BW, "this is exactly the same scheduling that used to apply to UK Summer Time before the European directive was issued." So we had the same stupid changeover rule before Europe ratified it. But yes, being part of the EU does make it a heck of a lot more difficult to change things.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 7:32 a.m. | #

I recall that when I was younger, we and the French had different dates when we changed clocks, which was a recipe for confusion. So while they were generally 1 hour ahead, at some times of the year we were on the same time. I can't remember exactly but think that they used to change in September while we were October. That would have been even more unbalanced if the 'spring forward' also happened in March.
As to changing, I can see your logic but without wishing to annoy any europhobes reading this, it really should happen on an international basis. If we change our clocks at a different time of year from everyone else it will cause great problems for international schedules and confusion for people moving between time zones, so if your campaign here goes well, you may need to extend it to the rest of the northern hemisphere!

SELondoner | 25.02.11 - 7:36 a.m. | #

SELondoner - North America already has completely different changeover dates to Europe, so there's no consistency across the northern hemisphere.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 7:38 a.m. | #

BW I have read the links but apart from them explaining that it was decided that as most of the EU used those dates any way they might as well carry on with them, it doesn't explain why they were originally chosen.

Though thinking about it as it was as I believe first changed during WW2, I wonder if March was chosen as a clever bit of double meaning propaganda. As in "March forward to victory" so people were aware when the clocks were changing and why they were changing. Of course I could be and probably am completely wrong and it in no way explains why October was chosen as the month to turn them back again.

Barry | 25.02.11 - 7:54 a.m. | #

Why not change at the equinox or nearest date to it? Or just not bother changing? Or ask the government to make the sun shine a bit longer during the winter?

Debster | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 8:14 a.m. | #

There will be a consultation on the bill.

Richard | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 8:17 a.m. | #

Actually thinking about it, I would vote for a few more hours in the day.

Debster | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 8:17 a.m. | #

My understanding of the reason for the asymmetry is that it's designed to be done when the temperature feels around the same - although I've no idea why that was chosen as the criterion rather than anything to do with, you know, how much sunlight there is...

edd | 25.02.11 - 8:40 a.m. | #

I agree lets change to "summer time" this weekend. Last evening, as it had been a very pleasant sunny day, I went for walk and got home about 6.15pm, nearly dark then, and I thought if only the clocks had changed already I would have been out until 7.15pm.
I keep my watch permanently on BST to remind how much extra light I could be enjoying. A "yes" vote here for dg's earlier changing time.

John | 25.02.11 - 8:51 a.m. | #

More sensible than any officially proposed policies. Which is why it will never happen, I fear.

Dominic | 25.02.11 - 9:27 a.m. | #

John, I too keep my watch on British Summer Time but that is because the watch is fragile and changing it twice a year has taken its toll on its 10 year old electronics. I am with DG and a vote for changing the clocks this weekend.

Vicki | 25.02.11 - 10:48 a.m. | #

"Before you go blaming Brussels, this is exactly the same scheduling that used to apply to UK Summer Time before the European directive was issued. March forward, October back." Not quite right DG. The 1925 Act stipulated (roughly) mid-April to beginning October. The March forward only came in in 1961. As to why, Google is silent, but I blame the Europeans (because I can)


alfie | 25.02.11 - 11:30 a.m. | #

Mu haha haha

london | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 12:27 p.m. | #

I'd happily support this change - I never realised there was this lack of symmetric anyway. If the government is considering double summer time I think it would be good if both changes were made at the same time - although I realise the EU legislation you mention makes it unlikely.

Jon Combe | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 12:35 p.m. | #

Can't we also campaign to keep GMT - I like GMT it has a physical form. I'd rather just stay with that all year long

Harriet | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 2:16 p.m. | #

I was told by a bond dealer that the reason for the date that we switched between BST and GMT was because it helped us to co-ordinate our markets with those in New York. Obviously, the EU would have no truck with all of that 'relative competitive advantage' stuff, so they arranged for London to switch to Frankfurt time, without a shot being fired.

Anyone remember this in a manifesto?

Roehamster | 25.02.11 - 7:40 p.m. | #

Thinking some more, and being a keen gardener, I suspect the origin of the asymmetry is to do with agricultural production.

In the time it started (no pun intended), a huge percentage of the county worked the land, producing food. The soil would be workable/harvestable for longer at the end of the growing season that at the beginning.

Blue Witch | Homepage | 25.02.11 - 7:47 p.m. | #

"The Summer Time Act 1972 defined the period of British Summer Time to start at 02.00 GMT on the morning of the day after the third Saturday in March or, if that was Easter Day, the day after the second Saturday. It was to end at 02.00 GMT on the day after the fourth Saturday in October."

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/astronomy-and-time/time-facts/british-summer-time-%28bst%29#history

Colin Newman | 26.02.11 - 9:16 a.m. | #

It's interesting that the split isn't equal, with favour given to winter time. In the US, there's almost an extra month of summer time over winter time. It used to be more evenly split, but the candy lobby wanted it to be light out later on Halloween and got the federal government to move the switch date back. (It sounds ridiculous, but true.)

DG, your proposal makes sense! Alas.

veronica | 27.02.11 - 12:33 a.m. | #

If you like it symmetric: Why summer time at all? In winter midnight (0:00) is in the mid of the night and 12:00 is in the mid of the day. Symmetric!

Andreas | 04.03.11 - 3:24 p.m. | #











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