please empty your brain below

DG, I don't hold out much hope for any road layout changes as, despite promising an urgent review, it's taken TfLM (Transport for London Motorists) 1 month to agree to install a few road signs.

The pernicious rise in the number of pavement blocking adverts (2nd pic), coupled with big road signs will end up distracting the HGV drivers even more.

The irony is that that advert is precisely where a protected cycle path could be - an irony probably not lost on the road lobby, in whose pocket TfL clearly are.

My feeling is that urban drivers already have more direction signs, signals, road markings, moving traffic and other things in their visual field than they can safely cope with at speeds above 20 mph. One additional novelty sign, with it's bizarre syntax, is as likely to make things worse as better. Regular users of the intersection will quickly filter it out. New users will be even more daunted and even less capable of safe decisions.

Just pondering on that second photo of the 6-sheet illuminated poster unit on the approach to the roundabout.

I've worked in and with the rail industry and they can be meticulous to a point of budgetary insoucience, when it comes to the deal on signal sighting - whilst equally blind to crass failings that have caused crashes (SN109 and Ladbroke Grove).

The poster panel - which earns the site owner around £1000/year does 2 dangerous things which traffic signs (Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directives) and vehicle design standards act to eliminate. the bulk of the sign is lower than the minimum height for placing signs above road level - and thus obscures pedestrians and cyclists in its shadow, especially for raised driving positions such as those in HGV's. It would not be permitted in this location and size if it was a road sign because of the masking effect on the road ahead.

Illuminated signs also have a major impact, in the fact that they 'overpower' the presence of other road signs and features, means that the use of overpowering illumination on vehicles and railway property is generally restrained or even blocked yet this sign at night will provide an even stronger focus away from the likely position of a cyclist on the carriageway. A night time view and a view from a high driving position would probably emphasise the flaws in the road layout pretty effectively.


PS the black on yellow signs fail to use standard wording or simplified wording which is prescribed with the view of reducing the confusion of too many signs and messages, highlighted by Sam Saunders, and in TSRGD manuals.

So what you're saying is these signs make things more dangerous because they obscure the road?

Oh Lord!

One other point about the illuminated sign - it is placed exactly at the apex of the bend: the point where a large vehicle is going to come closest to the kerb, and so the point where a cyclist is most likely to get crowded. Often you can escape in such situations by mounting the pavement, but not where pedestrian "sheep pens" or other obstructions, such as this sign, prevent it.

Too much visual clutter.
How about a series of local radio ads to educate drivers? We've been having terrible problems with people being killed by commuter rail trains (almost one a month for the last 6 months or so!) and recently I've heard several ads reminding people (drivers and pedestrians) how to act at railroad crossings. You'd think it was obvious, but it patently isn't to some people! Perhaps a general "look out for cyclists" message could go out across London several times an hour?

Do these signs have any legality under the Highway Code?

Kim In theory all advertising signs have to have planning permission and a roads authority can object.

We don't have the roadside hoardings issue that plagues the US as the Highways Agency won't have 'advertising' blatantly placed on trunk roads and as a result you'll see vehicles which are unlikely to be capable of moving under their own power carrying slogans in adjoining fields (as a vehicle they are technically not a fixed hoarding). It happens with cycle parking stands as well (with a notable protest about this in Bath).

BUT for this sort of poster site the local authority a) agrees a general approval for a number of installations without detailed plans b) is often also the roads authority and c) gains revenue from every additional poster site. Hus the safeguards for avoiding pposter placement that masks sightlines and distracts drivers are effectively dropped.

If that sign can be shown as a causal factor in a cyclist not being seen by a truck driver then a case for its removal could be made very strongly, and the failings of the roads authority and planning authority in permitting its erection are exposed.

The other day I saw a cyclist being hit by a black cab on Oxford Street.

The cyclist used the pedestrian crossing to cross the road, at red light, and he didn't even look around!!
He was lucky to be in a 20 mph zone and that the taxi was not a double decker.

I know how vulnerable cyclists are to lorries and buses, but seriously, some even fatal accidents could be avoided just by using common sense and not making 3 stupid mistakes at the same time.

I was referring to the yellow TFL signs. Are they in the Highway Code? Do drivers have to take any notice of them?

I'm checking some detail here but given the serious nature of the proven hazard It would be more appropriate to use the officially recognised warning signs in place of unique and long winded text using the black on yellow temporary signs.

Diagram 950 with information plate (distance to where cycle route joins carriageway) Diagram 572 is relevant, and a correct sign for this situation

At the pinch point both cyclists and drivers would be warned by a general alert - which would probably be Diagram 562 with descriptive plate 563 and appropriate wording "Hazard from left turning HGV's" or similar.

Check out TSRGD Chapter 4 for details. It also advises on Mounting heights - 2.3 m above a footway.

See my blog for the history of the Bow Flyover at
http://blastedheath.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/bow-flyover.html










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