please empty your brain below
On the move DG?

dg writes: Nope.

NLW | 13.04.16 - 7:02 a.m. | #

they've put the rent up then?

dg writes: Nope.

peewit | Homepage | 13.04.16 - 7:14 a.m. | #

or not got the promotion/pay rise then?

dg writes: Nope.

Grumpy Anon | 13.04.16 - 7:19 a.m. | #

You can all stop trying to read anything personal into this one.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 13.04.16 - 7:27 a.m. | #

For many it not just about money. It about quality of life. Sure, if you happen to have a well paid job, can manage ones monthly out-goings etc, maybe have the odd two or three holidays a year...and things are "ticking-over" nicely, it all fine. But what happens if lose that job? What happens when the stress (physical/mental) starts to take its toll? Does one think to oneself, I could maybe move out and earn less but be happier? Is life really about being content and not really about being "better-off"/earning more money? Is it about living in a envirnoment that has more space, less pollution, less noise, less dirt and more chances of being healthy for longer?

Working Class Hero | 13.04.16 - 7:31 a.m. | #

I got out three years ago, for St Andrews. Lovely place!

Peter Cameron | Homepage | 13.04.16 - 7:40 a.m. | #

"You can all stop trying to read anything personal into this one."

Forgive us for doing so, it does read VERY much like an "I'm out of here" letter!

Al__S | 13.04.16 - 7:49 a.m. | #

As requested, I am not reading DG's personal circumstances into this. But I come to the end of a well-crafted piece of writing, and feel sad. Sad not for DG, but for the people whose plight - which strikes me as a very real one - he eloquently paints.

But there is an upside, as depicted by Peter Cameron above. With the whole world to choose from, perhaps it may not be necessary to regret London too much. As indeed I do not.

Malcolm (an ex-Londoner) | 13.04.16 - 7:52 a.m. | #

I am certainly feeling this pressure, and have started using dg's "days out of London" reportage as scoping missions for places I might (have to) move to.

Dan | 13.04.16 - 8:30 a.m. | #

so bitter ...

HansG | 13.04.16 - 8:46 a.m. | #

To me this is simply a look at the dilemma of many Londoners of average means. On all sides they are afflicted by rising costs, and especially in the housing market. Where I live, in Walthamstow, we have had a huge rise in house prices, set off by incomers from Hackney who can sell a costly flat, but not afford the upgrade to start a family. They push house prices up beyond a point locals can afford, which pushed my daughter into moving away from where she was raised. Eventually all the former inhabitants of Walthamstow will be living in Shenfield and using Crossrail, and Walthamstow Village, now called 'The Stow" will be stuffed even fuller with 'Yummy Mummies' enjoying expensive cakes and Tapas.Vote Sadiq for mayor .....?

Brian | 13.04.16 - 8:54 a.m. | #

There is a difference between moving out by choice, and being forced out by the millionaire mafia.

We now know what the Tories 'long term economic plan' is this, mummy gives you £200,000 and tries to stay alive for 8 eight years so Dave pays no tax, it also explains why 'affordable' housing starts at £250,000 - mummy's already given you the first £ 200,000.

For the rest of us its 'long term economic pain'.

The Panama Papers show that most of the property bubble is caused by crooks laundering their money, and us 'normal' Londoners literally pay the price.

| 13.04.16 - 8:57 a.m. | #

Brian

Don't think Shenfield is cheap is it?

Agent Z | 13.04.16 - 8:58 a.m. | #

The Panama Papers show no such thing. t's really very simple, London's economy has boomed, sucking in lots of migrants plus a big increase in people having children in the Capital. The population has increased by over a million in just over a decade but the number of new homes has not increased that much.

Demand greater than supply, prices rise until it gets so expensive people start to leave and a new equilibrium is created.

The Solution, either you make London less attractive for business or you increase supply for housing. Plus you build lots of new tube lines so people can actually move around.

The problem is the green belt is apparrantly untouchable. So build more in London, except protest groups form about every tall building proposed or in fact any building scheme anywhere.

Complaints of gross over development, extra traffic, not enough school places. Such transparent lies as "I support extra housing, just not here, it's the wrong site/size/design" "If they came up with a better scheme I'd support it". People never will.

London has vast swathes of conservation areas covering vast ranks of terraced houses. No chance in these areas of them being knocked down for new apartment buildings even if next to a tube or rail station.

Rational Plan | 13.04.16 - 10:02 a.m. | #

The mention of Shenfield was not indicative of a specific destination, but rather a suggestion that this is all part of a big plan to push the poor into the banlieu, whilst offering them the chance to skivvy for the rich further down the line. Increasingly what is happening is that the poor(ish) are being forced into rental and further out, and this gives a longterm home for the capital of the new rich.

Brian | 13.04.16 - 10:04 a.m. | #

A rational plan, Mr rational Plan, is not to stick all our grorth in one place, but have a proper regional policy. For a start I'd move Parliament and all the ministries to Barrow-in-Furness. Watch the michelin-starred restaurants open, AND the start of HS57 ...... (jokes)

Brian | 13.04.16 - 10:08 a.m. | #

The only bit I don't see any evidence for is young people not going out evening/weekends. People are queuing round the block to get into the latest independent coffee shop/events pub in Tooting.(yes,Tooting) Is that what the rapidly increasing figures for personal debt are paying for?

South London Lad | 13.04.16 - 10:08 a.m. | #

>People are queuing round the block

I agree. London is rammed full of young people who don't seem to mind spending money. Everyone clutching their £3 coffee on the way to work.

If you buy one coffee and one sandwich per working day, that's about £140 per month.

Alan | 13.04.16 - 10:19 a.m. | #

London has always been expensive.

20 years ago you couldn't buy a flat in a decent area without earning a wedge.

Young people want it all and they moan too much. "Boo-hoo, I can't afford a flat in Clapham/Islington", then move to Grays and get a flat for £150,000. Everyone has to start somewhere.

And stop paying £3.00 for a coffee and £40 per month for an iphone.

Stella | 13.04.16 - 10:41 a.m. | #

@Peter Cameron - agree 100%. Lived there for several years and regret moving south again (of course, despite StA being a property hotspot, no chance to return to London, even back then...)

PeteC | 13.04.16 - 10:53 a.m. | #

I'm presuming this refers to the EU though, on first read, I thought it was alluding to Boris.

Kim | 13.04.16 - 11:05 a.m. | #

got out ten years ago, never regretted it! Nice place to visit etc.

m | 13.04.16 - 12:02 p.m. | #

Seeing as population growth figures show London is growing, who is actually leaving? Are most people just moaning but staying? Or are British people leaving and migrants coming?

If what Rational Plan is correct then it is hypocritical to complain about house prices going up and pricing you out at the same time as complaining about new tower blocks of flats being built!

It seems the only way to make someone happy would be to tank the economy, prices go down, no more blocks of flats get build... but retiring before losing one's job!

Dan Dodex | 13.04.16 - 12:28 p.m. | #

So are you voting to leave or stay..?

I voted with my feet 33 years ago.. and have never regretted it.

You're too inward looking, insular.. noisy, dirty and all the rest..

And as we say, visitors are like fish, after a while they begin to stink..

IsarSteve | 13.04.16 - 12:33 p.m. | #

@Rational Plan

The 'Green Belt' is there for a very good reason. Likewise as the parks in London and other protected areas of 'green'.
Maybe the issue of 'over-population' should be looked at?

E | 13.04.16 - 1:39 p.m. | #

@Stella and anyone else.

£3 per day for coffee over 365 days: £1095
£40 per month for iphone over 12 months: £480
Total: £1575

20% deposit on £250,000 = £50,000

£50,000/£1,575 = 31.75 Years to save up....

Need to cut out a lot more than the coffee and iphone.

MC | 13.04.16 - 2:00 p.m. | #

The item seems more an EU, you're not playing the game, you'd better leave post to me.

B | 13.04.16 - 2:28 p.m. | #

@Stella

What do you mean, young people want it all?

Is wanting a home too much to ask for?

At the end of the 1970s, still in my 20s, it was possible to buy a three bed place at Woodford Green (the better side of the tracks) on a busman's wages. Now it would just be about possible to rent one room. And you advise them to live at Grays or all points further east.. producing, of course, yet more traffic on roads in and out, or even fuller trains.

Such an I'm alright Jack (Jill) sentiment is pretty sad.

IsarSteve | 13.04.16 - 3:56 p.m. | #

I assume this is Brexit you are talking about ?

Tony (Somerset) | 13.04.16 - 4:30 p.m. | #

to "MC":

errr, you would obviously save more than just the price of an iphone and a coffee, and... you don't have to spend £250,000 on a property, or you buy with a partner and split the cost.

to "IsarSteve":

most first time buyers do not buy 3 bedroom properties!

jesus, this is just what i am saying. LOWER YOUR BLOODY EXPECTATIONS.

Ask any first time buyers in the 1950s 1960s 1970s and they were not buying 3 bed houses on their own, they were buying small flats with a partner.

Stella | 13.04.16 - 4:31 p.m. | #

to "MC"

"20% deposit on £250,000 = £50,000"

since when do you need a 20% deposit?

these days you only need a 5% deposit on a £180,000 small flat. ie £9,000

Stella | 13.04.16 - 4:40 p.m. | #

I wish all the poor people would move out of London, the streets would have less litter, fewer dangerous dogs, fewer horrible rough pubs, less crime, less noise from problem families etc.

Bill | 13.04.16 - 4:43 p.m. | #

I agree with Brian here.

When a rather undesirable ex council masionette in undesirable Plaistow/Stratford is marketed at 370k, you eventually know it, London, will screw its self.
One of the poorest boroughs in the country, with people struggling for rent or buying that sums up the plight of Londoners.

Perhaps i should dust off the 'Bat'

Bruce Wayne | 13.04.16 - 5:44 p.m. | #

@ Bill

Some of 'us' will stay, if that's o.k...those min-wage/zero-hour contract jobs have to be done by someone

Working Class Hero | 13.04.16 - 8:09 p.m. | #

@Working Class Hero

Of course you can stay, but don't make a mess or make any noise.

Bill | 13.04.16 - 9:17 p.m. | #

Living as I do outside the M25, my heart bleeds for you'all.

Let them eat cake, buy a 99P coffee from Pret a Manger and live in Woking.

Mike D | 13.04.16 - 11:27 p.m. | #

@ Bill

Thanks! I'll keep trying my best.

May I also make the point that the rich/wealthy/well-to-do seem to make quite a mess and noise too.

Working Class Hero | 14.04.16 - 7:38 a.m. | #

Recently handed in my card for many of these reasons. It was sad to do but that's how it is. London's now unsustainable for so many people and there will be a point where people just stop moving to the city.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 14.04.16 - 8:30 a.m. | #

Clever DG.

Although all these comments refer (understandably) to the problems of London life, having re-read the blog, I do believe that it is all about our membership of the EU.

One of the (many) problems there is the membership fee and the returns that we receive.

You agree to pay me £100 a week and I will give you back £25. You should be grateful. Think what you can do with the £25 that I give you every week. And stop complaining !

Petras409 | 14.04.16 - 8:36 a.m. | #

"these days you only need a 5% deposit on a £180,000 small flat. ie £9,000"

That's the problem. 'Help to buy' and 'affordable housing' just makes it easier to borrow money, which pushes up house prices even further.

A land value tax would sort this out.

JQ | 14.04.16 - 9:56 a.m. | #

@stella re:3 bedroom properties..

First time buyers did buy 3B properties back then.. Maybe you didn't.. I did...

We are of course talking British Bedroom sizes.. Room for bed with a built in wadrobe. At least two would fit into an average Berlin sized bedroom, where I now am.

IsarSteve | 14.04.16 - 10:22 a.m. | #

It was too expense over 25 years ago and sadly moved away to give my future children a chance to have something affordable and myself. Unfortunately the rest of the country has caught up and they are no better off outside London. I pity the young and what they expect to get.

Big Al | 14.04.16 - 4:47 p.m. | #

^ I done likewise. I was extremely difficult (as you probably know) but that being aid was the right choice. In all likelyhood you/your children are better-off outside of London ...not just in terms of affordable housing but health and future prospects of well-being.

E | 15.04.16 - 4:29 a.m. | #

Whether this is about the cost of living in London or the cost of EU membership, I'm out.

Hedgehog | 16.04.16 - 1:19 p.m. | #

Alfred says to 'vote leave' i wasnt, but now im starting to agree, what with Osbourne mentioning things gettng more expensive or god forbit interest rates having to rise... wheich needs to happen, it just foolhardy or he really doenst understand.

If the EU is great and of benifit for us to stay, then tell us why it is, instead of saying if we leave...'this, this and this' and will occur.

Long term prosperity , short term pain, its worth it

Bruce Wayne | 17.04.16 - 1:03 p.m. | #

I'll write a post about the EU referendum soon, and then we can all drone freely in the comments.

But this post is not it, so ssssh, please.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 17.04.16 - 1:12 p.m. | #

Pipe down Alfred...change that bloody tyre

Bruce Wayne | 20.04.16 - 8:11 p.m. | #











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