please empty your brain below
Yes - great news for the residents of NE London. Expect TfL to be marking Hackney Downs / Central and W Queens Rd / Central as interchanges.
Interestingly, the logic of the tube map means that Chingford services would now need to stop additionally at London Fields and Cambridge Heath. Great for heading to the Lido and for hipster London Fields commuters - less great for Chingford commuters. Of course, maybe this isn't in TfL's plan - if not they'll need to be an extra "fast line" chord a la the Metropolitan.
Interesting times and it will be wonderful to see these sad neglected stations brought back to life.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/oyster-rail-services-map.pdf
Only time (and Edgware Rd) will tell.
Weaver's Fields would be a sensible renaming...
I hope the take over will not intoduce the same uncomfortable sideways seating trains that are in use on the overground now.
If TfL have any sense, they'll still with the exisiting 'Rail Services' map that Dan posted above, except that it will be a TfL run service. Oh, hand on - IF they've any sense. Ah.
Dan - can you confirm that that Walthamstow link really is opening up soon??
John: The announcements conspicuously don't mention buying new trains. There's also not a lot of scope for them to increase the number of services.
The Goblin user group are best informed on these matters, and they are saying it should open in August. (But take with a pinch if salt - it should have opened in 2005!). However, the main infrastructure, the new bridge, is already finished, and just roped off while the connecting footpath is completed.
Will the link help with the next record attempt?
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/tfl-settlement-goblin-to-be-electrified-west-anglia-franchise-devolved/
Euston to Watford should be subsumed into the Bakerloo, it has nothing to do with the rest of the overground anyway except for the same rolling stock.
Same for the Goblin, unless there are plans to run Barking to Richmond services post-electrification.
If it's two minutes quicker to get from Queen Street to Central because you don't literally go all round the houses anymore, then it could be that you get one train ahead of what you would have caught on the Victoria out of Walthamstow.
That in turn, down the line (depending on what you do at Kings Cross) means that you could end up on a Mill Hill East train earlier than the one you could have been able to catch, and that puts you 15 minutes ahead.
A 300 meter shortcut, can save you a whole quarter of an hour, yes!
Or even Clapham Junction to Barking.
As for the new line, I don't think they can make it part of the Overground because it is so physically distinct. That didn't stop them for the Euston part of it though... So this "Overground 2"/"Lee Valley Line" probably will appear in a different colour, and not on all maps.
(Does anyone know if, once the tunnel bit opens, those CR trains will go to Liverpool St via Whitechapel, or are there going to be two "branches" as it were from Stratford, one going straight to Liverpool St and another going into the central core via Whitechapel?)
It's been said many times that the reason no Central line interchange was provided at Shoreditch High Street is because there'd only be capacity for the extra passengers after Crossrail opens. It looks to me like the main thing is that it's a pain for people coming from the east and wanting to then head to the northeast or southeast. If you're coming from the centre of the city, or the west, you'll either change at Liverpool St for the new line or head to Whitechapel via CR/H&C and get that branch of the Overground. But if you're coming from the east on the Central line you're either forced to change at Stratford then switch at Hackney Downs to go north, or if you want to go south then you head to Whitechapel and head south from there. It's not the most fluid of routes for central line passengers but it's not awful. It just looks terrible on a map, and I bet there's very little to be gained financially from providing these expensive extra interchanges.
Probably worth marking Cambridge Heath Road/Bethnal Green tube as an interchange (the walk is much easier than the one between the two BG stations, and it already is an OSI I believe) and renaming Bethnal Green NR station.
Also disappointing that TFL and Oyster cards won't run all the way out to Hertford East and Harlow or at least the split at Broxbourne. Cheshunt is a slightly odd place to stop.
I'm not sure that I would go so far, personally, as to consider the level of contrast between the Central and Overground Pantones to be 'worrying'
Or letter them like the RER in Paris, with numbers to show the branches. RER B for example has two branches at the south-western end, called B2 and B4 (even numbers) and two at the north-east, B3 and B5 (odd numbers). So you can say that Charles de Gaulle airport is on B3 and it's easy to find.
Indeed, more Transport for Middlesex, and nothing for South London.
Indeed, a quick count reveals that both Essex and Hertfordshire (neither of which is part of Greater London) each have eight LO and LU-served stations, Herts soon to be eleven when the Croxley link is completed (which will result in a net gain of one) and when Theobalds Grove and Cheshunt are added. With the coming of Crossrail, Bucks (including Slough) will also have eight. Thus each of the counties outside London's northern boundary have, or will soon have, more TfL stations than the COMBINED total for all the outer London boroughs south of the river (Richmond, Kingston, Sutton, Croydon, Bromley and Bexley): 2+0+0+2+3+0 = 7. Even if you include tram stops, the five worst-off boroughs* (Richmond, Kingston, Sutton, Bromley and Bexley can only muster nine TfL stations between them (2+0+2+5+0).
*Greenwich has 4.5 DLR stations, (Elverson Road being on the boundary with Lewisham), but will have two more stations thanks to Crossrail. The only other Crossrail station south of the river will be in Berkshire!
As far as i know the Shenfield and Woolwhich branches of Crossrail 1 will meet at Whitechapel which then proceed onto Central London , towards stations such as Farringdon , TCR and Bond Street.
Hope this answers your question
Already, having the DLR in a single colour has meant that the actual patterns of service are obscure to novice users.
The Overground has taken one of the few distinctive colours which remain - and then copied the DLR's mistake.
I can only imagine the Oyster (and other ticketing data) shows they both get used by commuters, rather than tourists, and TfL thinks that fact justifies leaving route data out.
If that's the case, why not strip them both out of the (occasional users and tourists) Underground map and put them on a (regular commuters) map of their own.
That would have the perverse effect of letting them reuse colours on the new DLR/Overground map to show the route data which they must have convinced themselves they do not need...
Ah OK. So even though TFL is taking over the concession from Liverpool St to Shenfield that currently goes on the track directly between Liv St and Stratford, and making it part of Crossrail, that doesn't mean Crossrail trains are going to directly replace that service (they're all going to go down the tunnel instead).
That means there's going to be quite a drop off in the number of trains going down that viaduct between Liverpool Street and Stratford then. Quite good for me, I live right next to it and it'll be nice if traffic is reduced a bit.
Why not two maps...Underground and Overground... both with the same scale and layout ??
Network Rail have a cunning plan to use the freed-up capacity to run extra long-distance services (up from 23 tph to 28 tph), so there won't be that much fewer trains on the viaduct.
(Many more details here)
I mean, you'd never make all the tube lines the same colour, would you? Southern trains has over 12 lines going through London anyway
I assume this now means my kids will be able to travel free as they do on the tube. At the moment I can get a tube to Woodford and a bus for free or pay a child fare on the train which is a daft anomaly.
Also, will this now mean the Hall Farm Curve is now more likely to be re-opened allowing for a direct Overground service from Stratford to Chingford via Walthamstow? Plans are already in progress on that I believe, but this surely makes that more likely now. Would add a further complication to the map though!
The GOBLIN can become the Goblin Line. Khaki greeny-brown would be a good available colour, and fitting as it is the skin colour of goblins. There are plants to extend this out to Dagenham and Barking Riverside so it would have an increasing presence.
Highbury and Islington to Clapham Junction via Shoreditch, and the West Croydon/Crystal palace spur can remain Orange.
Stratford to Richmond and Clapham Junction via Wilsden can be a muted lavender.
Euston to Watford can be a bright fluorescent pink. It could be integrated into the Bakerloo line as another poster has said, but it doesn't stop at every station, which is kind of the point for commuters, I think?
Shenfield Metro isn't a problem as that will be represented on the map as part of Crossrail.
The problem comes when TfL finally gets its hands onto the other rail services... Have a look at the mess of lines out in South East London alone and you've got a major graphic design problem a couple of decades down the line when policy finally catches up...
Save fluorescent pink for later... you'll need it!
I don't think it makes sense to split the orbital bit of the Overground. Sure, it breaks in two points, but from a useability perspective it makes sense to emphasise that it's meant to be an orbital link, kind of like a further out version of the Circle line.
The Goblin really should be a different colour, though, I agree. And I do wonder about the Euston-Watford branch...
People often talk about building a new station at Junction Road that can act as an Overground/Northern Line interchange, and no doubt that's going to happen eventually, maybe 10 years from now. But I think circumstances may make a reopening of Primrose Hill - as a place to interchange with Chalk Farm - equally sensible.
HS2 and CR2 are going to need plenty of new space in Euston, and there's going to be lot of rejigging of the tracks there. It seems mad to have a weird extra limb like the Overground taking up space there. I think they should change it so, instead of it going to Euston from Willesden Junction, you get it going on that short branch of track via a new Primrose Hill station to join the line at Camden Road.
You've then got the possibility of making a District/H&C type split of the Overground to emphasise separate services even though they share the track between Camden Road and Canonbury. Have trains that currently terminate at Highbury & Islington carry on to Clapham Junction via the Hampstead Heath section of track. Then, have trains that start at Stratford carry on via the new Primrose Hill bit to Watford.
Boom, you've got yourself a new NW to NE direct rail link that keeps people from having to go into central London to get from A to B - one of the key points of having the Overground. You'll also have two new interchanges that are badly needed, at Junction Road/Tufnell Park and Primrose Hill/Chalk Farm. And the map would look a damn sight simpler.
One advantage of your Northern Line interchange idea is that it takes pressure off the Victoria Line from Euston to Highbury and Islington. I wonder how many people go that way so they can get on the Overground to go to East London from Central? It gets absolutely bombed out at peak times.
I don't think you could cram that many trains through the Highbury - camden section, especially given the flat junction that woild be required for East London trains to get further bthan Highbury. There is also the need, after electrification, to fit longer trains into the "Goblin" - which surely would have to be the "God Line" if it's extended to Dagenham? - which would require extensive modification at Gospel Oak if that remains the terminus.
So how about
Watford - Queens Park - Stratford
Richmond - Hampstead Heath - Stratford
Clapham Junction - Hampstead Heath - Barking,
all at 4 trains per hour, and giving 8tph Willesden - Hampstead and Camden to Stratford
The map looks allright -- to my eyes at least...
TridentScan | Privacy Policy