please empty your brain below
I think those Tube prices are incorrect. According to the TfL website, a Z1-3 peak single is £3.30 and an off-peak single is £2.80, with a cash ticket being £4.80. Therefore, the tube is always cheaper? (even though only by 5p when using the online Highspeed discount)

Rotherhithe | 23.07.15 - 7:19 a.m. | #

I'm puzzled as to when peak fares are charged. This is what Southeastern's web-site says. Can anyone decipher it?

"Our peak time services run Monday to Friday arriving in London before 10.00, and also from 16.00 - 18.59. Off-peak services run at all other times.

Although it is considered peak travel between 16.00 and 18.59, if you purchase a ticket to travel at this time, the ticket is sold as off-peak.

Off peak tickets are generally available for travel after 09.30 in the metro area, and on services which arrive in London after 10.00 from Kent mainline.

Please check at your local station or through National Rail Enquiries if you are unsure which ticket may be required for travel."

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/contact-us/frequently-asked-questions/planning-your-journey

Dan | 23.07.15 - 7:21 a.m. | #

I believe there's a supplement fare you can buy if you already have a z1-3 travelcard - I assume that the system isn't smart enough to charge you this if you have the relevant travelcard on your Oyster?

martin | 23.07.15 - 8:02 a.m. | #

for paper tickets between stratford international and london st pancras, your off-peak ticket is available after 0929. thus, in the evening peak, you can leave your oyster card at home/

wolf | 23.07.15 - 8:29 a.m. | #

As Stratford residents, the only time we use the high speed is when elderly family members are visiting from Shropshire. They arrive at Euston, we take the back way walk to St Pancras, high speed to Stratford International and then deposit them to their room at the Premier Inn, Stratford City right next door to the International Station. Worth the extra cost as it's so much less hassle than a tube journey when you're dealing with 80 year olds who aren't used to crowded tubes. Being able to use the spare oyster cards we keep for their visits will make it even more straightforward. Bet Premier Inn are delighted by this development.

Joan | 23.07.15 - 8:52 a.m. | #

As I recall, the reason HS1 (across its whole length) has the pricing premium is because the government insist on it. Not that I'm totally convinced Southeastern would reduce the fares if they were allowed...

This has naturally led to speculation (especially from the anti-HS2 brigade) that HS2 will similarly be massively more expensive than current fares - something the government has denied.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 23.07.15 - 9:04 a.m. | #

And what about those over 60, who have a Senior Railcard, with reduced rates on their Oyster? Presumably the same results, pro-rata.

petras409 | 23.07.15 - 9:10 a.m. | #

You wrote "The tube is always cheaper"
and "Tube Oyster Off peak return 6,20", "Highspeed Online Off peak return 5,65". Is 6,20 really cheaper than 5,65?

MK | 23.07.15 - 9:19 a.m. | #

If the High Speed will now take Oyster will it now also take Freedom Passes?

Agent Z | 23.07.15 - 9:24 a.m. | #

I believe that the high fares for such a short journey are actually intended to discourage people from making it. Train Operating Companies tend to make the bulk of their money from longer-distance commuters and they don't want their trains full with cheapskates travelling just a single stop.

Davey | 23.07.15 - 9:35 a.m. | #

@ Agent Z

Good question...or will there be "changes" to the Freedom Pass? All been bit quiet on that front lately? The news of the costs of the free TV licence for the over 75s being passed onto the BBC was not exactly mentioned in the run-up to the election was it? Is there something "planned" with the Freedom Pass that will one day spring out of the blue?

Grumpy Anon | 23.07.15 - 9:44 a.m. | #

Interesting point about the fares not being part of the daily Oyster/contactless cap. I guess we can expect a similar arrangement when Crossrail reaches Heathrow. A bit like how at Sydney airport a supplement is charged for entering or exiting at the domestic and international stations. These are on a main commuter line, not a spur like Heathrow.

| 23.07.15 - 10:14 a.m. | #

@Andrew Bowden. I don't think HS2 is going to go ahead. The kind of people who you would think are in the know, like Camden Council and Network Rail, are behaving very oddly. The blocks of flats behind Euston that were going to have to be pulled down to widen the approach throat... new building has just gone up there. Euston itself that was going to be demolished and rebuilt? A new shopping mezzanine and a facelift just been done.

Uncle Audrey | 23.07.15 - 10:37 a.m. | #

Uncle Audrey - Camden Council seem to be very anti-HS2, although given the disruption it will cause to the area, perhaps understandable. However I wouldn't be concerned about Network Rail's improvements at Euston - it's going to be some years before HS2 starts running and the station needs to work better for its passengers now.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 23.07.15 - 10:45 a.m. | #

As "Rotherhithe" has pointed out, the Tube fares you quote seem to be incorrect. You seem to have cited the Z1-6 fare instead of Z1-3. (And from January Stratford will be in Zone 2!)

Even if they were correct, although a 30p price difference (peak) or even 70p (off peak) (or zero if you're paying cash) to save quarter of an hour looks like a good deal, it doesn't look so good when you realise that much of that time saving can be wasted in getting to the "South Eastern" station at StP (which, confusingly, is in the NE corner!) and, even more so, trekking to Stratford proper at the other end, and even more time may be lost because HS1 runs a lot less frequently than the Circle and Central lines - as I type, the next train is in 14 minutes' time.

timbo | 23.07.15 - 10:58 a.m. | #

Ouch, yes, I shall have to redo all the tube bits with the correct fares, sorry. Hopefully I've got the Highspeed fares correct.

diamond geezer | 23.07.15 - 11:53 a.m. | #

Note that The SouthEastern 25% web discount is a "summer sale" offer and only lasts until the 24th August. It's not available for journeys totally within zones 1-6 - but because Stratford International is considered to be outside the zones I assume that is an exception.

Robbob | 23.07.15 - 12:03 p.m. | #

@robhob
"Stratford International is considered to be outside the zones"
Unclear - he DLR station is definitely in Zone 3

timbo | 23.07.15 - 12:20 p.m. | #

@martin -You can buy a single ticket from St. Pancras to Stratford International for £3.95 if you present your Z1-3 Network Gold Card. Sadly, you can't buy from the vending machines - you have to go and queue up with the tourists.

Ken | 23.07.15 - 12:32 p.m. | #

This all goes to show what a farce the travel system is in London and it's environs with the hotch potch of companies running it. If DG can't get it right, what hope for the rest of us??!!
South-eastern (the company) rail users have their fares increased annually by an extra one percent on top of the rises granted to other rail companies to help pay for this high-speed link. And yet those of us in south London can't get on it unless we go to north London!
It's a premium service for premium commuters who don't live in London. But Londoners must help pay for it!

Chris | 23.07.15 - 1:18 p.m. | #

What are the pros and cons of mainline Liverpool St - Stratford vs tube? Presumably same fares, but can be quicker and may well be more comfortable but less frequent?

RogerB | 23.07.15 - 4:10 p.m. | #

It depends. Changing from the Tube to mainline at Liverpool Street can be a bit traumatic. The relevant mainline platforms are diagonally opposite the tube ticket hall across the concourse, and you need sharp elbows.

The mainline trains - now TfL Rail - are pretty wretched - they smell of moss and fury.

Service intervals are fairly frequent but irregular- you need to consult a timetable.

So if you're already on the tube, especially if you're on the Central Line, it's best to stay on it.

But if your Stratford destination is actually closer to Maryland station; OR if you're starting your journey at or near Liverpool Street, then it might be worth a go.

ken | 23.07.15 - 4:17 p.m. | #

It depends
mainline is quicker, and the trains are more airy (However, ages range from the ancient '70s era class 315s to the 21st-Century 360s, or even - if you're a bit cheeky - an Intercity Mark III - the 1992 tube trains fall in the middle of that range.

I you're going west of Liverpool Street, probably best to use the Uunderground to avoid changing. Likewise, if you're going east of Stratford, probably best to use the service which goes to your destination (be it Romford or Woodford) If you're doing e.g Manor park to Holland Park, better to change at Stratford as the change is easier and you get first dibs on any seats going spare at Liverpool Street. If you're going the other way, the change is still easier at Stratford, but you'll get a better chance of a seat at Liv Street

timbo | 23.07.15 - 4:41 p.m. | #

We live near Maryland Station and so use the TfL Rail line all the time. We have already seen an improvement, at least in the station, since TfL took over from Greater Anglia. Really nice - especially with our teenage kids travelling solo - to have staff in the station pretty much all the time. Don't mind getting on to the tube at Liverpool Street and for getting to the museums at South Ken or - to go back to the original topic King's Cross St Pancras - is a nice easy transition. For the Central Line though I'd change at Stratford - much easier. Have to say that as someone with a mobility impairment I'm really looking forward to Maryland getting lifts.

Joan | 23.07.15 - 4:47 p.m. | #

OK, thanks! I've now...
a) adjusted the tube fares
b) mentioned that the online discount is temporary
c) amended the conclusions

diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.07.15 - 6:24 p.m. | #

Isn't Liverpool Street - Stratford an approved alternative anyway, before it became TfL Rail, their staff passes were valid on that section only anyway, now it's TfL rail, I think the fare is the same regardless of whether you use the Central Line or TfL Rail.

I'm not sure what it's like now, but the 315s used to be driven with 'enthusiasm' on this section.

| 23.07.15 - 6:32 p.m. | #

"if you don't mind your journey taking quarter of an hour longer."

....UP TO quarter of an hour longer. If you've just missed an HS1 train, you will be past Mile End on the tube before the next HS1 train leaves St Pancras.

timbo | 23.07.15 - 6:33 p.m. | #

@anon "now it's TfL rail, I think the fare is the same regardless of whether you use the Central Line or TfL Rail"
The fare was always the same, ever since the Central Line opened back in the days of the LNER.

The TfL journey planner suggests there is no difference in time between using TfL Rail and the Central Line when travelling from Kings Cross to Stratford but, given that you have to change at Liverpool Street for either route, the TfL Rail route is more direct and non-stop so likely to be quicker in practice

timbo | 23.07.15 - 6:39 p.m. | #

@timbo - I wanted to put that, but wasn't certain, so I hedged, but it does make the whole post irrelevant as you never HAD to use the Central Line in the first place.

| 24.07.15 - 7:15 a.m. | #

Um, "If you have Oyster, then travelling by Highspeed always costs more than by tube, especially off-peak" - now the prices have been amended, surely that should read "especially (on-)peak"?

£1 more per journey more off-peak, but £2.10 more per journey during the peak.

Interesting that non-Oyster return off-peak is £2 cheaper than taking the Tube twice.

Andrew | 24.07.15 - 10:29 a.m. | #

Good thing this is going on Oyster; I don't personally mind paying £3.80 if I had to get from that area to Stratford quickly.

Better than going via the Hammersmith and City line, that's for sure.

Silent Hunter | Homepage | 25.07.15 - 11:24 a.m. | #

There is another route option: Victoria line to Highbury & Islington then Overground to Stratford

tops | 29.07.15 - 9:03 a.m. | #











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