please empty your brain below
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Hurrah for tube geekery! Only ever seen a D stock operate the District Olympia shuttle, though. C stock just does the Wimbleware runs.
dg writes: I so should have known that.
Now changed, thanks.
Tom | 08.11.10 - 4:25 a.m. | #
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Ah, you appear, most uncharacteristically, to have overlooked the C77 stock (1977); i.e. around half (I think) of the C-stock are 8 years younger than the others. Before they were refurbished they were easy to identify (as they had a differnet coloured roof), but now they blend in with the older ones.
And the C-stocks did have more seats when they were built, but my goodness was the refurbishment a vast improvement in almost every way!
Dominic H | 08.11.10 - 6:54 a.m. | #
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The 1995 Stock were delivered after the 1996 Stock (for most stocks the year in the name is several years before the delivery date).
Complicating things, in 2005 they lengthened every 1996 Stock train with an extra newly-built carriage, and even built 3 extra trains, and for a while these were the newest on the network (the new carriages have orange information screens).
Graham | 08.11.10 - 7:02 a.m. | #
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Little known tube car fact for you; before the new Vic lines started running, the newest carriages were C Stock. Yep, I said C Stock! Two new cars were built in Hungary circa 2007/8 to replace the cars lost at Edgware Road and Aldgate in the 2005 bombs and allow the full fleet to run in service again.
SELondoner | 08.11.10 - 7:28 a.m. | #
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The Bakerloo line trains aren't *all* longitudinal!
Dominic Self | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 7:28 a.m. | #
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You lot just tell me where I'm wrong, and I'll come back later to tweak things further.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 7:34 a.m. | #
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the 1992 stock are apparently getting a bit of spit n' polish - the new, competition-winning moquette is on its way in, and I've heard the cushions are being plumped up a bit too. (And some boring technical stuff like the bogeys being replaced.)
martin | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 8:29 a.m. | #
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And if we are being really pedantic (as if), the Bakerloo line trains are (I think all of them) "1972 (Mark 1)" stock; the "1972 (Mark 2)" stock, which were similar, but were identifable by their red doors, when no other trains had them, used to run mostly on the Jubilee line (before they were replaced by the now all-withdrawn, horrid, little, 1983 stock - now only visible as artists' studios on that viaduct in shoreditch), but I think all of the Mark 2 1972s have now all been withdrawn, too. Although now all of the trains are painted identifying the difference between the two types is less straightforward.
Dominic | 08.11.10 - 9:01 a.m. | #
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I don't think the northern line trains are too long to fit in the platforms but stand to be corrected. I am pretty sure that they are no longer (and probably shorter) than the trains they replaced. Two things give you this impression. Firstly, they are now driver-only operated which means that the drivers cab at present must be fully in the platform. So therefore the driver can no longer stop in the tunnel where necessary so that the first set of doors is only just in the platform.
Secondly, there now seems to be a minimum acceptable width that the platforms must have to allow the doors to open. So on many northern line stations (e.g. Hampstead nothbound at southern end of the platform) the doors won't open at the end because equipment rooms have been built that occupy half the width of the platform. I think this is a really bad idea and anything that doesn't need to be located on the platform should be located elsewhere even if it costs a lot of money to do so but with money tight I cannot see that happening.
Pedantic of Purley | 08.11.10 - 9:09 a.m. | #
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The new S Stock Metropolitan trains are just 2 metres longer than their A Stock equivalents but this is causing all sorts of problems with stabling areas etc. which can't all take the extra 2 m.
SELondoner | 08.11.10 - 9:21 a.m. | #
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Pedantic - the Northern Line trains certainly are too long to fit on to "certain platforms". Clapham Common springs instantly to mind and I think another is Charing Cross. I'm sure there are more.
I read a rumour that some of the 1973 stock will be sent off to the Isle of Wight to replace their adapted and positively ancient 1938 stock. They'll probably be 80 before they get replaced!
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 9:35 a.m. | #
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Pedantic, being driver-only operated doesn't stop Northern Line trains from stopping with the driver in tunnels. The driver gets a wireless feed from the CCTV in the station to the cab for monitoring the doors.
Chz | 08.11.10 - 9:39 a.m. | #
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Andrew B, I don't know Clapham Common well but will accept that it is too short for the train. I am not fully convinced by Charing Cross though. From memory, which may be faulty, on the northbound platform there is an equipment room at the north end which forces the the driver to stop shorter than he would otherwise do so hence the last set of doors do not open.
Chz, I know that but as I understand it the regulations still require the driver to be in the the platform. This is presumably because of issues arising if the CCTV feed fails and he needs a signal from the platform staff in order to be able to close the doors.
Pedantic of Purley | 08.11.10 - 10:06 a.m. | #
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No idea about any of the technicalities, but I think the 1967 Victoria line trains are my favourites...they're very comfortable.
Clair | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 10:08 a.m. | #
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Bakerloo rumoured to get new trains 2018.
Geofftech | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 11:29 a.m. | #
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Dominic - the Bakerloo line trains are 1972 Mk2, transferred from the Jubilee Line when it got its (short lived) 1983 stock. 1972 Mk1 was used on the Northern Line, until replaced by 1995 stock. Some Mk1s were then converted to strengthen the 1967 and 1972 Mk2 fleets on the Vic and Bakerloo.
One other pedantry - in the entry for 1992 stock it suggests it replaced 1962 on both the Central and W&C. That's not right, the previous stock on the W&C was a 1940-vintage design built by the Southern Railway, vaguely resembling the classic 1938 stock but technically more conservative, and similar to the Southern's suburban stock of the inter-war period.
Although the current timetable runs HSK-Olympia, using D stock, in times past an Edgware Road - Olympia has operated, using C stock.
Timbo | 08.11.10 - 12:50 p.m. | #
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Timbo, thanks, I stand corrected
Dominic | 08.11.10 - 1:37 p.m. | #
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A stock: excellent after their mid-life refurb, but replacing with “S”, even with the higher (NOT) seating configuration is going to be a disaster for anyone commuting from inside, say, Moor Park.
Victoria: The new stock is another classic FAIL. Designed/built just too soon for “open internal tube” configuration, much too hot, and unreliable – mainly because, I think, the doors DON’T FIT. When you go past a cross-tunnel, when running fast (as between KX and 7 Sisters … the doors “pop”, and lift perceptibly, about half-a-centimetre up, and out. No wonder they fail!
“Circle” (or should we call it tea-cup now? : “S” is probably good for here, except these should have the seating used on the Met ….. Admittedly the old C60 stock is knackered, through hard use.
Bakerloo: no comment
Piccadilly: Will have to soldier on, I suppose – they work though.
District: Replacing these with inner-city seated “S” is going to be another cock-up of the first water. Given that the current stuff is 30 years old, it is doing very well.
Central: Now they’ve sorted the traction motors falling off (oops!) these are quite reasonable.
Northern: The trains are NOT, actually too long to fit the platforms. It’s the LUL arrogant cretins SHORTENING the available amount of platform that has done it.
Jubbly: Nothing wrong with them, as far as I know.
Greg. Tingey | 08.11.10 - 2:17 p.m. | #
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I take it you're resisting the incorporation of the 'overground' into the tube network?
dg writes: First rule of tube week - the DLR & Overground are not included.
disgruntled | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 5:32 p.m. | #
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You may have to include DLR and Overground next year. From today, Mike Brown (Managing Director of LU) is also MD of London Rail (DLR/LO/trams) following the retirement on Friday of Ian Brown.
Rumours abound that under the major reorganisation being planned to trim costs across TfL, LR will disappear and be absorbed into LU. No decisions have been taken yet but incorporation into LU is one of the options being discussed.
SELondoner | 08.11.10 - 6:52 p.m. | #
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If you look at the DfT letter to Boris about the spending review settlement you will see a list of future project milestones.
An interesting one for 2015 is delivery of a prototype train which will form the basis of a new generation of tube stock to replace the Piccadilly and Bakerloo Line stocks.
PC | 08.11.10 - 7:03 p.m. | #
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If you need to change from the southbound Victoria Line to a south bound northern line the best thing to do is stay on the train at King's X and change at Euston. You then go through Kings X again. I don't think it takes any longer and it increases your chances of getting a seat.
ganching | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 8:04 p.m. | #
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There's is definately a station on the Northern southbound where the end carriage is in the tunnel. And I mean tunnel here. No ifs, no buts but windows with brick wall.
Although maybe the door fits on the platform. I can't remember.
Well that was a useless comment...
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 08.11.10 - 9:44 p.m. | #
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Made me laugh though.
Pedantic of Purley | 08.11.10 - 11:26 p.m. | #
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