please empty your brain below
Surely if your existing commute is on TfL Rail you won't be able to interchange with Crossrail because TfL Rail will become Crossrail from May 2017? All you are doing is interchanging with yourself if you see what I mean. It's a bit like saying the Circle line interchanges with the Circle line.

Strictly speaking the Piccadilly line interchanges at both Heathrow 1,2,3/Heathrow Central and Heathrow Terminal 4 but in both cases the stations are separate.

There are a couple of near misses and I notice you have included Wanstead Park so presumably you are allowing these. If you include that then I would argue you should include an interchange for the Victoria line at Oxford Circus as it will be very close to Bond Street (Crossrail - Hanover Square entrance) and therefore enable and interchange with the Victoria line and also another interchange with the Bakerloo line. An interchange there would be pointless for the Central line as you could do that using Bond Street (Central line).

Also, as pointed out to me a couple of days ago, Poplar on the DLR will be very close and convenient to Canary Wharf (Crossrail) especially when they extend the existing footbridge. In fact by my reckoning it will be considerably closer than Canary Wharf (Jubilee) will be to Canary Wharf (Crossrail) which you have included.

You must know by now you will get loads of people disagreeing - or is that why you did this?

Pedantic of Purley | 18.09.15 - 12:36 a.m. | #

The Tube Map 2020 will be a bit more colourful and crowded...

Gerry | 18.09.15 - 1:10 a.m. | #

... plus all the extra Overground bits that have already appeared since this forecast was issued back in 2012.

But perhaps by 2020 all the printed maps will have been replaced by interactive touchscreens? If not, they'll have to be a fair bit bigger !

Gerry | 18.09.15 - 1:30 a.m. | #

Plus the Royal Docks end of the Dangleway will be close enough to Custom House Crossrail station for that to count as an interchange.

Mike Scott | 18.09.15 - 6:23 a.m. | #

Crossrail's version of the 2019 Tube Map is the first link in today's post.

(it's also out-of-date, Overground-wise)

diamond geezer | Homepage | 18.09.15 - 6:42 a.m. | #

I think DG was relying on Crossrail's tube map, which for example shows an interchange connecting Farringdon and Barbican. The stations will be on top of each other at Farringdon, but is there really an interchange at Barbican? Don't you have to leave the long Crossrail station at its east end and walk round to Barbican tube station?

Andrew | 18.09.15 - 7:10 a.m. | #

We don't all commute on the Tube you know!

National Rail:

South Eastern: Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal
Anglia: Liverpool Street, Stratford, Shenfield
Great Northern: Moorgate
Thameslink: Farringdon
Great Western: Paddington, Greenford, Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading
SWT: Reading

Southern, C2C, Virgin East Coast, East Midland, Virgin West Coast, Chiltern: no interchange

Only five stations south of the river.

timbo | 18.09.15 - 8:13 a.m. | #

@timbo. In the spirit of pedantry which we like on DG's blog, I need to point out that Great Northern, Thameslink and Southern are no longer active franchises. They exist only as brand names used by GoVia Thameslink - which is now a single huge franchise.

IslandDweller | 18.09.15 - 8:30 a.m. | #

??

TfL Rail *is* the Crossrail line ... you know that.

dg writes: (that's why it's in brackets)

Geofftech | 18.09.15 - 8:31 a.m. | #

@Island Dweller
A single huge franchise which will have just two interchanges with Crossrail, at Farringdon and \Moorgate.

@Andrew
"is there really an interchange at Barbican? Don't you have to leave the long Crossrail station at its east end and walk round to Barbican tube station"
The XR publicity talks about a bridge connection between Barbican and the eastern ticket hall at Farringdon.
[stupidly long link]

Not siure what that means, but here is a picture
barbicanbasement.jpg
Farringdon.jpg

timbo | 18.09.15 - 8:40 a.m. | #

@PoP: "It's a bit like saying the Circle line interchanges with the Circle line." ... well, it kind of does at Edgware Road...

RG | 18.09.15 - 9:12 a.m. | #

timbo,

Greenford?

I presume that you meant West Drayton. And why omit Slough?

Pedantic of Purley | 18.09.15 - 9:14 a.m. | #

I've only just realised that "Govia Thameslink" is meant to be pronounced "Go Via Thameslink", rather than "Govv-ia Thameslink"...

Sykobee | 18.09.15 - 9:22 a.m. | #

Agree about Tfl - it won't exist. Your precedent for near misses is not just Wanstead Park but also Canary Wharf and Paddington. At Canary Wharf, Poplar and West India Quay will possibly be easier interchanges than the Jubilee. Crossrail will make all the stations which call themselves Paddington even further apart than they are now, so you should include Lancaster Gate as it can hardly be further away than the Hammersmith & City.

kev | 18.09.15 - 9:27 a.m. | #

As for the Circle - of course it interchanges with itself at Edgware Road and Paddington. Any line which requires you to get off one train and board another on the same line interchanges with itself. Therefore any line which has branches interchanges with itself, as does any line which has some trains which don't go all the way to the end, so the only one that doesn't appears to be the Waterloo & City.

kev | 18.09.15 - 10:10 a.m. | #

And it was once proposed that in 2016 we could have changed from Crossrail to the District Line at Turnham Green and Richmond, to the East London Transit at Ilford and Romford, to the West London Transit at Ealing Broadway, and to the Greenwich Waterfront Transit at Abbey Wood...

Gerry | 18.09.15 - 10:17 a.m. | #

I agree with Kev about a line with branches. But short-running trains do not /require/ you to get off one train and get on another; you could have waited for a through train. (Unless /all/ trains run short from one end or the other, causing overlapping sections, but AFAIK London does not have such a line).

Malcolm | 18.09.15 - 11:15 a.m. | #

@PoP
"Greenford?

I presume that you meant West Drayton. And why omit Slough?"

No: I meant West Ealing. And I did forget Slough.

Speaking of which, I note that SWT's publicity for how to avoid the rugby crowds on trains through Twickenham suggests visitors to Windsor castle should time their journey carefully. Not a mention that you can avoid the Twickenham area altogether by travelling from Paddington.

"Stupidly long link"
(sorry, didn't know how to abbreviate it)

timbo | 18.09.15 - 11:19 a.m. | #

Malcolm - Aren't there cases where a decision is made to terminate a train short during the journey, so you don't know whether it really is a through train when you get on. Not sure how often or where this happens.

kev | 18.09.15 - 11:40 a.m. | #

@timbo

Wot? No London Midland?

shirokazan | 18.09.15 - 12:05 p.m. | #

The absurdity of crossrail is shown here - What it doesn't connect with.

- Terminal 5 of Heathrow Airport (so as to preserve the monopoly of BA's Heathrow Express? (the most expensive train in the country)

- Runs almost past but does not connect with London City Aiport - if an airport with 3 million passengers PA does not have a "business case" that what else does?

- No connection with Marylebone, Euston (requiring at great cost another line?), St. Pancras International (small detail of all the International train services coming there), Kings Cross and Fenchurch Street. Perhaps the reason why the line goes down Oxford Street is because of commercial interests rather than passenger interests?

Finally one other dubious point about this line - it extends the writ of TfL into areas where people cannot vote for the Great London Authority and its Mayor. Sure this exists with some parts of the Underground that have gone outside London, but it doesn't seem right that this should happen here. I think this line should be run by National Rail of course, but thats miles away unless Corbyn becomes the PM in 2020 and this whole mess is brought back under one house, and planned and arranged accordingly.

Onerailway | 18.09.15 - 2:14 p.m. | #

"The eastern ticket hall will also provide a second access to barbican station"

Google cityoflondon transport crossrail barbican to find the reference (linkie has a long url)

Diagrams suggest that the entrance to Crossrail from the Charetrhouse Street side will be via the Barbican platforms

timbo | 18.09.15 - 2:14 p.m. | #

@timbo - re Barbican, thanks, neat. I had not realised that the east end of the Crossrail station would be so close to the west end of the platforms at Barbican: the tube station entrance is some way further east.

Andrew | 18.09.15 - 2:19 p.m. | #

@onerailway
Don't worry.
Back in 1863 someone had the same idea of connecting Paddington with the City, and for a few years at least trains could run through from the Great Western Railway to the Great Eastern Railway. However, the route soon became overwhelmed with local traffic, with rolling stock specially designed to cope, which was unsuitable for longer distance journeys, and the through traffic was gradually abandoned.

Will history repeat itself?

timbo | 18.09.15 - 2:20 p.m. | #

@ timbo

Here's how to shorten a long link !

Gerry | 18.09.15 - 2:34 p.m. | #

If I'm awake and online, I can generally edit and shorten any long link dropped into the comments box. But blimey that one was long.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 18.09.15 - 5:18 p.m. | #

So the only 'line' of the Overground that Crossrail won't connect with is the Watford line - and then only because they're still dragging their feet over sending Crossrail trains up the WCML. Connects nicely with the Emerson Park shuttle though!

swirlythingy | Homepage | 19.09.15 - 9:13 a.m. | #

@Swirlythingy
"the only 'line' of the Overground that Crossrail won't connect with is the Watford line "
But it won't connect with the Overground anywhere west of Liverpool Street, and will cross it without interchange at Shoreditch, and twice at Old Oak Common

timbo | 19.09.15 - 12:01 p.m. | #











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