please empty your brain below
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The misprint is already fixed on both the pdf and gif versions.
gt | 01.03.11 - 1:35 a.m. | #
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I bet they made the it to make DG look like a fake.
When will the Overground final bit of Surrey Quays-Surry Canal Road-Queens Road Peckham-Peckham Rye-Denmark Hill-Clapham High Street-Wandsworth Road-Clapham Junction be added?
Brian Butterworth | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 5:44 a.m. | #
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The Clapham Junction line currently expected to open in the second half of 2012 and current practice, as DG notes, is to wait until opening before putting new lines on the map.
However you may find it earlier on certain versions, such as those provided to makers of diaries, A-Zs etc. which have a longer shelf life. Or have a close look at the enamel panels on the core of the East London line, where the enamel shows the Clapham line but has a large sticker over the top of it showing the current line only. (This was done for H&I too, where the temporary stickers were removed on Friday)
SELondoner | 01.03.11 - 7:25 a.m. | #
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PS Brian: Don't expect to see Surrey Canal Road any time soon, it hasn't been funded as yet. The developers looking to build a new urban quarter on the industrial estate around Millwall FC seeks to change that but as it stands no-one has yet stumped up funding.
SELondoner | 01.03.11 - 7:27 a.m. | #
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If any of the incorrectly keyed maps did get printed I bet they will become quite the collectors item to those who are interested in such things.
Barry | 01.03.11 - 7:29 a.m. | #
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Could be a big shout... but do we think we'll see a new tube map for when Tottenham Court Road closes for 9 months (for the Northern line only) in April?
9 months is a long time to be down - I'm thinking we could see the station be downgraded to just a Central line stop....
MarcB | 01.03.11 - 7:48 a.m. | #
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Paging Max Roberts...
THC | 01.03.11 - 9:01 a.m. | #
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As a former suburbanite and still SE London-dweller, I'm more of a fan of the national rail-equalising Oyster Rail Services map than the tube map, so I was similarly excited to grab the new version of that yesterday.
No glaring errors on it, nor daggers, nor real complaints, but a mystery at the south-east corner of Tramlink, where a perfectly decent layout last time has been rejigged into something far uglier this time: the last two stops' names previously were on one line each, neatly protruding from the right-hand side of the line, comfortably inside the green-tinted Tramlink 'zone'; now they've each been wrapped onto two lines and the last has been shifted to the other side of the tram-line so that it now dangles over the edge of the 'zone' and just looks messy.
I wonder *why* changes like this, which have no apparent rationale, get made...?
Paul | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 9:14 a.m. | #
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The DLR Canary Wharf, and the Jubilee Line Canary Wharf are still shown as one station, even though they are quite distinct (CW-DLR isn't even the nearest DLR station to CW-JL, that would be Heron Quays).
It will be interesting when the cross-rail CW station opens, in a third location. Will that be shown distinctly?
botogol | 01.03.11 - 9:19 a.m. | #
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While we're on the map : a brain-teaser for tube map geeks regarding the river.
The river is quite important for the tube map, it's the only geographical feature on it, and the designers are quite careful to show stations that are close to the river in actuality, are shown as close to the river on the map.
So the poser - which two stations are most misleadingly placed. ie
- which station is actually very close to the river but most misleadingly shown as being far from it
- which station is most misleading drawn as close to the river, when it's actually far from it.
I have my own ideas... but I am sure DG's readers know better.
botogol | 01.03.11 - 9:26 a.m. | #
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@bogotol: My tube map river poser, and indeed my theory as to why the designers tried to remove the river recently, is: how are they going to show Blackfriars once the entrance on the south bank opens? Connected blobs crossing the river? Would certainly have removed a headache if they'd just been able to get away with losing the river!
Paul | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 9:33 a.m. | #
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I wonder if one of the stations that botogol is thinking of could be Hammersmith as that is not too far from Hammersmith Bridge over the Thames.
John | 01.03.11 - 9:42 a.m. | #
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Botogol - I suppose it depends if you count Greenland Dock as part of the river. Surrey Quay's quite a schlep away from the Thames proper.
Monument's pretty much right on the river, but then there wouldn't be enough space for all the map and line faffery around it if they moved it there.
Chz | 01.03.11 - 9:42 a.m. | #
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Come to think of it, Ravenscourt Park is practically on the river too...
Chz | 01.03.11 - 9:44 a.m. | #
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There's a problem coming up with the Overground. Anyone who's tried navigating its lines will realise that it's not the continuous system (like a normal tube line) that its uniform livery suggests.
There are stairs to be negotiated and platforms to be changed: the experience simply isn't like catching the Northern Line from Morden to Mill Hill and the graphic layout gives the unsuspecting traveller little to suggest this.
Claiming that the extension to Clapham Junction creates a 'loop' just exaggerates this.
Roehamster | 01.03.11 - 10:34 a.m. | #
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Proof reading! Bah, humbug. The skill was lost years ago in TfL. The new DLR timetables posted on my local station are dated "January 2011", but still have the Stratford International extension shown as "Opening Autumn 2010". About as good at proof reading as project management?
Tim | 01.03.11 - 10:51 a.m. | #
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Interesting that Canary Wharf & Heron Quays gets a dagger for street level step free interchange to the Jubilee but London Bridge has no dagger. London Bridge step free interchange between the Northern and Jubilee requires a fairly long walk up Borough High Street and back in at Tooley Street.
David Walters | 01.03.11 - 11:25 a.m. | #
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In some of the LO trains you find a new version of the map with Stratford International DLR already added.
Follow the link for a pic:
http://www.lewminesce.co.uk/londonmoving/blog/?p=4924
Dan | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 12:02 p.m. | #
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Dan, indeed... DG's "new tube map" link goes to my twitpic last night of the new bit of the DLR on the map.
I too, was surprised by the layout at H&I station. I thought that the trains up from Dalston would come into the centre platforms, at least giving you a 50% chance of being able to make a cross-platform interchange if you were indeed trying to make an orbital voyage of the city, but no ... lots of steps involved.
Also, the centre platform is uneven, there's an unsightly bump running down the middle of this, and despite this 'step up' on the the platforms for the extension, the platforms and still not level with the floor of the train when the doors open! Duh...
geofftech | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 1:24 p.m. | #
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Where is Max Roberts?!
Alan | 01.03.11 - 4:17 p.m. | #
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'something much more exciting's happened'. Relatively speaking ...
Debster | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 5:12 p.m. | #
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Where am I?
In my office writing a lecture on animal intelligence at the moment.
How long did it take TfL to realise that those daggers were futile? It's still the same insipid design that they have clung to for the last decade.
The London Transport Museum are running a big celebration of the map next year, and they asked me if I wanted to be interviewed on "licensing, and merchandise, and the Underground map". I politely declined, I think I have more interesting things to talk about than Underground maps printed on g-strings.
In the meantime, the map exhibition is hopefully heading for the USA, watch this space.
Max Roberts | Homepage | 01.03.11 - 7:10 p.m. | #
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DG, I didn't realise the H&I extension opened yesterday, even though I travel through H&I each morning and sit on the Stratford platform watching the works on the Dalston side. Am I just dozy or has there been zero publicity along the (other) Overground route(s). I listened curiously as they announced at peak hour a couple of mornings ago over the PA, 'testing testing 123'...
@Max, good news about the Museum celebrating the map (again?) next year!
EskimoPie | 01.03.11 - 8:30 p.m. | #
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Roehamster: that's not really correct.
Although Overground lines are shown in the same colour, distinct services are discernable - hence the doubling of the lines between Canonbury and Highbury, rather than just showing them merging. No doubt Clapham will be shown as an interchange between two lines, also.
The only exception is Willesden Junction, where many trains from Clapham Junction terminate - but from May most CJ trains will run through to Stratford.
Conversely, the Northern line journey you suggested (Morden to Mill Hill East) is almost impossible to do without changing at Finchley Central, unless you happen to catch one of the rare peak-only through trains.
The service where this IS a real problem is DLR - who is to know that Beckton trains go from Tower Gateway, but Lewisham and Woolwich trains from Bank?
Balfron resident | 01.03.11 - 9:03 p.m. | #
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Geoff: the platfrom layout *has* to be like that - the line from Dalston joins the NLL on the level, and with both routes extremely busy and a flyover massively expensive the only way to avoid constant conflicts between the WB NLL and ELL lines is to keep them entirely seperate. The step at H&I is historic and without massive and unjustifiable cost not worth dealing with.
Chris | 01.03.11 - 11:22 p.m. | #
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Chris,
They used to do make things easier for interchange passengers. Do you not think that the cross platform interchange at Stratford, Oxford Circus, Euston, Stockwell, etc. etc. were massively expensive to build too?
The difference is that in this day and age, convenience for passengers gets two fingers when the cost-benefit analysis is being performed.
Max Roberts | Homepage | 02.03.11 - 8:00 a.m. | #
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Max - yes, but those X platform interchanges were on new lines being built from scratch, and underground, so the extra cost of getting the appropriate lines adjacent was much less. At Dalston it would have required a flyover, with much demolition of surface buildings, or a diveunder, which would be difficult to fit in, given that both HS1 and the proposed Chelney route are competing for space under the ground in that area.
You have a 50/50 chnace of a cross platform interchange at H&I if heading west, as platforms 2 and 7 (!) (respectively used by half of terminating ELL trains, and by westbound NLL trains) are opposite faces of the same platform. This is a similar situation to that at Edgware Road eastbound. Similarly, if heading from Hackney towards Shoreditch you can cross the platform at Canonbury.
Timbo | 02.03.11 - 10:09 a.m. | #
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I wish they would renumber the platforms at both Highbury and Stratford. The way they are ordered currently makes very little sense, and is most unhelpful to those not familiar with them...
Dominic | 02.03.11 - 11:06 a.m. | #
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@Balfron resident
The DLR System Map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/dlr-route-map.pdf does show the different routes usually in operation on the DLR. Presumably it's too complex to include on the main tube map.
Tim | 02.03.11 - 11:21 a.m. | #
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Timbo,
The Bakerloo, Northern, and GE Suburban lines were there already before the new lines (Victoria and Central extension) came in. Stratford is on the surface, and to add to the list, Mile End was quite a feat of engineering.
Compared with this, the diveunder at Dalston does not look too difficult to achieve on the Google satelite view. How much would it have added to the cost, and what proportion of the total budget would it have been?
Edgware road is an abomination too. Over 100 years of chaos because it wasn't built properly to begin with.
Max Roberts | Homepage | 02.03.11 - 11:40 a.m. | #
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Balfron resident: Point taken - but detraining and crossing to an adjacent platform at Kennington and then again at Finchley is a million miles from swapping between the high and low level stations at Willesden Junction. My initial opinion was that the 'doubling' of the track between Highbury and Dalston is ugly but now agree it makes your point for these two separate services. And is still ugly.
Your news that services from Clapham will run on to Stratford is very welcome, as the shuttle to Willesden always seemed lacking in joined-up thinking.
Roehamster | 02.03.11 - 2:41 p.m. | #
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Did anyone download the TfL tube map with the error and can send me a link??
Nick | 02.03.11 - 7:39 p.m. | #
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Max, a diveunder at Dalston doesnt look hard on google because the problems are underground - HS1, and the massive tree trunks that hold the feet of the cutting apart. Any diveunder would close the NLL, completely, for a substantial length of time especially as there's nowhere but the trackbed itself to use as a worksite. Is that worth it for cross platform interchange?
Chris | 02.03.11 - 7:48 p.m. | #
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There's the NLL freight to take into account too. They have to have access to the Canonbury tunnel - and even if a flyover could be squeezed in somewhere as well, it would have to have gradients suitable for the longest and heaviest freight trains.
Paul | 04.03.11 - 3:04 p.m. | #
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