please empty your brain below

Good to see the station at Worcester Park. Previous versions were a bit Mickey mouseish, with semi-fast lines shown: the main criteria appearing to be distance between stations, rather than footfall (utility). The 'Metro' influence, perhaps.
A new station in Stoke Newington is too expensive, but they are going to build ones in Islington and Chelsea where land prices are so much cheaper?!
Win the Lottery, buy property around New Southgate, win the Lottery again!

It'll be hard not to get to New Southgate, three separate lines to choose from - there is always bound to one not on strike!
I looked at the consultation yesterday and was overwhelmed by the sheer volume of material; I wanted it in hard copy! A magnificent job in summarising DG. Of course your regular readers would expect this, but magnificent nonetheless.
There was a piece in last night's Evening Standard about the group campaigning to prevent a station being built in Chelsea.

What I don't get is why they would oppose something that would improve the area's transport links to other parts of London and beyond (notwithstanding the amount of building work involved).

Surely not building a station in Chelsea would be an opportunity squandered.
I agree that it is a good summary having spent hours reading through the various documents. I agree with DG's view that the construction impacts in some places will be huge and the effect on local businesses located in business parks possibly very damaging indeed. It'll be interesting to see how all that plays out.

It is good that TfL have at least put a marker down that some of the existing SW branches will lose all of their trains to Waterloo. If nothing else that will trigger the requisite reaction from locals, commuter groups and politicians. It also kills off the myth that existed in some peoples' heads that they were keeping all their Waterloo trains *and* getting vast numbers of CR2 ones as well.

One tiny quibble - the STAR project is only a third track between Angel Road to south of T Hale. Some other initiative - Lea Valley 4 tracking, Osborne's Anglia Rail working group or CR2 itself will be the way 4 tracks are provided on this corridor.
Chelsea? Oh, they are rightly worried about years of disruption from the works, construction traffic, and the potential for historic buildings and green spaces to be affected. They are also somewhat lass justificably worried about damage to Chesea's "unique character" (meaning they are fine thank you very much and don't want it change), that Crossrail 2 will make it easier for thousands of hoi polloi to swamp their lovely enclave, the possibility of "tacky shops", and various other FUD.
Made me laugh to see Angel road is to be on Crossrail 2. Currently has one train an hour. Will they change the British Rail opposed arrows sign at the station entrance ?
Wow. Taking out the entire of Wimbledon's shopping mall is serious. That's going to have major repercussions on the commercial interests of the town centre. Can't see that going down well at all. The big problem is that the railway is hemmed in by the shopping centre, but there aren't many options to relocate it.
I'm not convinced that the New Southgate branch should be part of CR2. If it is really necessary and not just a ploy to make Tottenham feel it's getting post riot investment, then surely it should be connected up to the overground at Dalston Junction as a new North>South line? Why would anyone want to travel from N11, N22 to King's Cross/Euston via an approx 10km longer route than the GN line?
Another much needed link across the Lea via Hackney & Leytonstone has been kicked into the planning 'long grass'. That link is IMO much more important than the New Southgate link.
I know they want to relieve the Northern Line with a stop at Balham or Tooting, but it does introduce a massive kink in the route.

I presume that in many of the station sites, they will build nice tall office/residential blocks on top of the destroyed worksites at the end to recoup money.
Andrew Bowden,

I may have misunderstood but I am led to believe that Wimbledon is right behind Crossrail 2 and that no tears will be shed because of the loss of Centre Court. It will of course be replaced by something bigger and better.
@Andrew
I don't think they are planning any new stations in Islington (Angel), just more platforms at the existing one. And, unlike Stoke Newington, Chelsea doesn't have a station at all at present.

Now, can someone disentangle what is proposed for the Kingston/Shepperton branch? Somewhere between Kingston and Fulwell between two and four trains drop out - where do they go? The only thing we do know is that they will not be going to Twickenham!
And why no mention of Teddington?
Wood Green shopping centre is halfway between Turnpike Lane and Wood Green stations, so a short walk from either. If they knock down the cinema, then it's one destination less for Wood Green.

Centre Court: I don't really like it. Getting in and out of the car park is horrendous. The junction and the set of lights by the car park entrance is just awful. Lifts, stairs and escalators are inconvenient. There's one nice touch I like though: the old Queens Road facade is beautifully preserved and integrated, it would be a shame to let it go.
@Isar Steve
"Why would anyone want to travel from N11, N22 to King's Cross/Euston via an approx 10km longer route than the GN line? "

Likewise, why would anyone want to travel from the SW London suburbs to Clapham Junction by a 3km longer route than the SWML? I though the Tooting twist was bad, but the Balham Bulge is ridiculous.
If you are going to serve both Wimbledon and Balham, you have connections to the Brighton and South Western lines - do you really need to serve Clapham Junction as well?
I look at this scheme and see immediately a plan designed to relieve Waterloo of it's suburban services.

Cross city services are an added bonus - and something the capital needs more of away from the tube network.
I certainly won't miss Centre Court shopping centre but the problem is that it is a huge proportion of Wimbledon's retail space and there isn't much space to displace it to in the meantime. And its not just Centre Court. Other parts of the retail space are also at risk. Unless they come up with a way of mitigating it, it could be akin to ripping the heart out of the town centre in a way that could mean it may never recover.

Crossrail 2 has huge benefits and I fully support it but I am not entirely sure someone has thought through the repercussions which could last a long time.

Someone has some work to do to work out how to do this without completely destroying Merton's primary retail district.
Has anyone looked into the effect on bus stops during the proposed works?
It is of course possible to avoid destroying central Wimbledon (perhaps as much as 70% of current shopping floorspace). Here's the plan:

1) Do not route CR2 via Balham or Tooting, instead stay on the surface until Earlsfield.
2) Build the CR2 tunnel portal after Earlsfield next to the cemetery.
3) Build a fast, no stations, tunnel from New Malden to Earlsfield/Clapham Junction to provide the extra tracks needed for Surrey and Hampshire.
4) Do a much more modest Wimbledon station enhancement within the current footprint, but still moving the tram out.

Rough estimates suggest the plan above is about £1.5bn CHEAPER than TfL's plan. It also avoids the most stupid indirect routing for a new railway TfL could have thought up - the Balham Bulge.

See my blog for more info (or click the link next to my name)
A simple look at TfL's map will show the craziness of the Balham Bulge.

To avoid that and the damage to Wimbledon's shopping centre, means routing CR2 via Earlsfield on the existing tracks, not via Balham at all. It also needs a fast tunnel (no stations) from New Malden to Earlsfield (for Surrey/Hampshire) to provide the missing capacity. This combination is roughly £1.5bn cheaper than TfL's plan via Balham.
Looks good to me. It will be especially useful to have a direct link from Clapham Junction to Euston/St Pancras, avoiding the need to change in central London and probably quicker too. I don't see the loss of direct services from Waterloo to these stations as a huge loss - there will still be a very frequent service between Waterloo and Clapham Junction, so in practice it is only likely to add a few minutes.

I'm in favour. The only downside is the likely years of disruption but that will be impossible to avoid.
From the Wimbledon leaflet
"We believe we will be able to retain the majority of properties for most of the time during construction. We are working with the London Borough of Merton and business groups to protect the interest of businesses in
Wimbledon Town Centre."

Not sure of the construction of Centre Court, but is it possible the upper levels can continue business as usual whilst new platforms are built underneath?

It also seems odd that the portal is north of the station, but the station itself is underground.

Anyway, by 2030 we'll all have jetpacks and/or Wimbledon will be below sea level.
Because of the extortionate costs of LU/NR through fares, and the London Bridge works, it is faster, cheaper and more comfortable to drive to work from NW to south central London until my house purchase is complete.

I never realised this until now, but Chelsea is a major bottleneck in the road network from Westway/A4 to A3/A23/A24/A205. For some reason, peak road commute time (0700-0900) is also peak lorry and truck delivery time.

Fortunately, I'll only need to do this commute for 3-4 months, but a 2-hour drive would probably become 3 hours when construction at Chelsea starts.
Too much talk of "the economy" & "future growth"...the South East & London especially is over-crowded already and in not truely subsaintable. Too expensive for many to rent (let alone buy) a place to live, travel costs will keep increasing, wages will (for the working poor) go down in real terms. Quality of life will not improve for those who are struggling now. Another 1 million people in London in the next ten years is no joke...with or without a Crossrail two. Still got the "issues" of airport capacity, hospitals, schools, roads, air-pollution and a more divided unequal society to address. It "not so bad" if got a good, well paid,secure job, live in a nice/"upmarket" area etc. But for many the "benefits" of remaining in (or quite close to) London are far outweighed by the negative.
Can't help giggling a bit at the idea of Berrylands getting 4 trains an hour.

And will a Crossrail train stretch all the way from Chessington North to Chessington South ?

Or indeed stretch from Hampton Court to Thames Ditton

They will be long you know.


Mike D in Walton-on-Thames
Surely a new and improved (it can do with it) Centre Court can be built high above Wimbledon station ?
IsarSteve - IIRC the New Southgate branch has a better case than the Lea Valley, due to the congestion relief for both the north end of the Piccadilly and Finsbury Park station. As with Balham, the routeing is heavily influenced by the need to relieve existing tube lines but this annoys crayonistas for some reason...
If Chelsea needs a station, why not reopen the surface one on the overground at a fraction of the cost and time compared with an underground one ?
With regards to the Turnpike Lane/Wood Green option, it really needs to be the former. That allows the line to properly interchange with the Great Northern at Alexandra Palace. The Hertford Loop part of the Great Northern line is getting increasingly overcrowded, and it would relieve the strain at Finsbury Park where the station can be closed at busy times to ease platform congestion.

You can still very easily reach Wood Green's shops from Turnpike Lane. And you don't have to knock down a cinema. (They seem to be doing that in Soho anyway, which is already mustering quite a campaign).
@Mike D
"And will a Crossrail train stretch ........They will be long you know."

How long - most of the stations to be served have only just been extended to take ten car trains. Making them even longer could get very expensive
Length - a Crossrail 1 train will be 9 cars and 200m long.

To put this into perspective, the class 455s that South West Trains run on their suburban routes (the red ones) are 19.83m long per carriage (according to Wikipedia). So that would around 10 carriages.

So assuming Crossrail 2 trains are similar length to Crossrail 2 trains then you're fine.

If they wanted to make them longer (Southern regularly run 12 car trains so pushing 250m long) then they'd have to do more work to the platforms.
As you might guess, that should be...

"So assuming Crossrail 2 trains are similar length to Crossrail 1 trains then you're fine."
A bit late, but I am now even more concerned over the development of this route. After the Balham bulge, I thought that things couldn't get any worse, however, I was wrong.

Do you want to visit a 'Drop-in' (bad start). Well, then you have to guess Nov or Dec, to see if there's one near you. Oops, no, I was never any good at 50:50s...

And, they are only ordered by date, not by destination. And you have to know the CR2 (apologies, undefined Acronym) name to find it.

So, why does this information have to be hidden away in downloads. Why can't it be on a normal web page, and why not an interactive map as well. And, multiple sorts, etc. Rant over.
@ offin Dodger - it's perhaps worth saying that the current Angel Rd station is due to close. It will move to the south side on the A406 near the big Tescos and IKEA. It will be renamed Meridian Water as part of a large scale redevelopment of industrial land to the east. This will become a new housing area with many thousands of new homes.

The resited station is due by 2018 as part of the STAR project which also adds a third track down to south of T Hale. I expect Angel Rd / Meridian Water will be vastly busier once resited - if only to carry the hordes to IKEA rather than overloading the 192 bus! It will also have 4 trains an hour rather than 1 in the rush hours.
So the STAR project will become the rather less catchy STMW?
Crossrail 2 - RIP 31st Oct 2020










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