please empty your brain below
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(unless, obviously, any of those figures are wrong)
diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.05.11 - 8:01 a.m. | #
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Quite right overall to praise the Overground, especially the ex Silverlink lines. Numbers not quite right on the East London line though, and crucially missing some detail in the current pattern.
The LU service operating in 2005 had 5 tph from Whitechapel to both New Cross and New Cross Gate all day, so New Cross's 2011 4 tph is a reduction. Moreover, this drops to just 2 tph after 2200, a huge gap if your half hourly southeastern train service doesn't connect.
Sunday morning services also have some long and random gaps before midday.
Also, you omitted last train times from this line, I assume you couldn't find them (I searched in vain myself last year myself). But LU made sure that the interchanges at Whitechapel an Canada Water worked and people didn't get stranded, with the last s/b train leaving Whitechapel around 1am. Now last trains are around half an hour earlier and result in unaware people being stranded late every night with no obvious way of getting home.
Shame these niggles mean that those of us on the old line have lost out in amenity despite the vast investment made (and 2 and a half years of closure, many weekends coinciding with Jubilee line closures).
SELondoner | 23.05.11 - 8:26 a.m. | #
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The GOBLIN was only 2 trains per hour on Sundays from December until yesterday.
In addition there are 8 trains an hour between Dalston and Highbury on the ELL not 4.
Your table also doesn't reflect the 8 tph from Stratford to Willesden Juntion during M-F peaks.
I do, however, agree it is an overall improvement and I suspect many of the people using the sevices would agree.
PC | 23.05.11 - 8:29 a.m. | #
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I knew I'd have some figures wrong.
Thanks, I've attempted to update most of what you've pointed out above. Most.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.05.11 - 8:33 a.m. | #
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The trains from. Croydon to Shoreditch are way to slow - it'd actually be faster to go into Victoria then round the circle line to Liverpool Street then to walk...
Ed | 23.05.11 - 9:24 a.m. | #
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No, it wouldn't. Because the trains from West Croydon to Victoria are just as slow.
Unless you mean East Croydon and then they've conveniently scheduled in a few fast trains that stop at NCG for a change. I know when it launched you'd have to change at Norwood and ride the all-stops service in, but they've made a few concessions on that.
Chz | 23.05.11 - 9:30 a.m. | #
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The service frequency is only part of the improvement that the Overgrond has brought.
Its hard to describe to those who didn't use the old Silverlink services just how 'abandoned' he stations, the trains and the infrastructure felt.
I used to cower next to the help points at night. Now every station is staffed. The stations have been cleaned and spruced up, the new trains are a HUGE improvement, and the journey has become pleasant.
The OVERGROUND should be used as a model to improving other local commuter lines.
Lew | 23.05.11 - 12:01 p.m. | #
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It was the silverlink that got me started on my old Disgruntled Commuter blog. I agree, it was an appalling service, and I have seen fists swung between passengers as commuters fought to get onto trains after the service had melted down because of broken doors. I'm still glad I no longer have to use the service, mainly because I'm done with commuting but also because of the lack of seats on the new trains but still a vast improvement.
disgruntled | Homepage | 23.05.11 - 12:32 p.m. | #
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If you add the Southern services (2tph London Bridge to Caterham, and 2tph London Bridge to Victoria via Crystal Palace) then New Cross Gate to Sydenham actually gets 12tph, and Sydenham to Crystal Palace gets 6tph (not forgetting the other 2tph Crystal Palace gets to/from Victoria & Sutton via West Croydon). Not a bad service really compared to much of the capital.
Pete | Homepage | 23.05.11 - 3:59 p.m. | #
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So does the Overground line work the same as the underground/DLR, ie with respect to Oysters/travelcards?
CornishCockney | 23.05.11 - 8:17 p.m. | #
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Didn't the DC (Euston to Watford) until recently have 4tph, now it's been cut back to 3?
geofftech | Homepage | 24.05.11 - 12:04 a.m. | #
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Yes - the Clapham via Willesden to points north connection times were lousy (as was the reverse journey). I did it to commiserate the end of the ex zone 1 travelcard to Chesham from Cheam - ah! [anagramatic stations - now there's a post DG!], and other Metropolitan extremities, and the in built delays almost ruined an otherwise cost effective day.
I agree that the West Croydon journey is painfully slow northwards - have done this twice. So many stations, so little distance travelled.
Ken | 24.05.11 - 1:00 a.m. | #
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Geofftech - I can't remember a time when the DC line ran 4 trains an hour and I've used the line for 30+ years
Cornish cockney- The overground is actually now part of TFL so yes oysters are fully accepted
peewit | Homepage | 24.05.11 - 8:12 a.m. | #
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Better service agreed, but pity about the uncomfortable new trains with their sideways facing, hard and few seats.
John | 24.05.11 - 8:52 a.m. | #
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John - I think you mistyped "excellent about the comfortable new trains with their non-back-killing seats, and with enough standing room to accommodate peak-hour demand".
I tried to commute on the NLL in the last days of Silverlink, and eventually gave up in favour of a longer, theoretically-slower and more expensive Tube journey. If I still lived in the vicinity, sticking with the NLL would now be a no-brainer.
Why *does* the Sunday service from Richmond now stop so early? Engineering, or something I've missed?
john b | Homepage | 24.05.11 - 4:04 p.m. | #
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New Cross's 2011 4 tph is a reduction. Moreover, this drops to just 2 tph after 2200, a huge gap if your half hourly southeastern train service doesn't connect.
Well, except that it's only a few minutes' walk from NXG to NX, so you'll never have a major wait to worry about.
john b | Homepage | 24.05.11 - 4:05 p.m. | #
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Thanks Peewit.
CornishCockney | 24.05.11 - 7:29 p.m. | #
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I've found rail companies including tfl have a habit of cancelling the second to last train which because of the now longer gaps (30mins instead of 20 mins) in the late evening service (after 10:30pm) and the last service usually running late often results in wait of 40 minutes (or if you just miss the train before it 1 hour 10 mins. (eg Camden Road to Stratford). Things are not helped by an information system that shows everything is fine until the train is due at which point you're told the bad news.
Tony | 25.05.11 - 1:48 p.m. | #
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I too was once a Silverlink customer who gave up on them. The West London Line was the most overcrowded service imaginable - it made the Central Line in rush hour look positively quiet. This may seem an overexageration. It wasn't.
I even went to the extent to emailing Silverlink who told me that it would be too difficult and expensive to add extra carriages to their trains.
In other words, their management were quite happy to run a shoddy, overcrowded service because they had no incentive to improve it (n.b. some aspects of this were no doubt due to the privatised railway franchise system not giving them any incentive to improve)
It's notable that it took the lines to come out of the privatised railway system for any investment and serious improvement to happen. TfL must be commended for the huge improvements they've made - the West London Line is now more than usable, even taking into account the huge shopping centre someone dumped in Sheps Bush!
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 27.05.11 - 1:28 p.m. | #
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