please empty your brain below
Blimey, it's Radio 4.

Waterhouse | 16.05.13 - 7:35 a.m. | #

Guys, we seem to be confusing Chelney with Crossrail 2. A better nickname would be Chelgey. I think it's obvious - TfL is to avoid Hackney as much as possible. And there is NO link between Chelgey and the Bakerloo or Jubilee - meaning that this Victoria relief line ain't gonna work. Of course, a station jointly at Piccadilly Circus and Green Park would solve this, but oh no, too hard to build...

Rotherhithe | 16.05.13 - 8:09 a.m. | #

The absence of an interchange with the Bakerloo (unless Picc Circ is included) and Jubilee does not prevent it relieving the Vic - by removing passengers between Victoria and Euston St Cross (and indeed Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale) from the Vic it will leave more room for those who do need to interchange with the NW/SE axis. In the same way, the line would relieve the SWML into Waterloo, despite not going there itself.

| 16.05.13 - 10:48 a.m. | #

Seems crazy not to put a new station in between Dalston Junction and Seven Sisters - surely a stop at Stoke Newington would be a good idea?

Jamie | 16.05.13 - 11:15 a.m. | #

Jamie

The stations shown on the map have not been finalised. It seems to be more "here's a rough idea of where it'll go & what it'll pass through..."

The route takes it straight under Stoke Newington, and, so I would have thought that a station there would be built, or at least a station somewhere in-between there and Dalston, given the massive gap.

D-Notice | Homepage | 16.05.13 - 11:28 a.m. | #

Maybe the thinking is that the Seven Sisters - Hackney Central section will operate as the fast service, connecting at both stations with the existing GE stopping service. In the same way Plaistow, for example, isn't served by C2C, or Kilburn by the Met. If CR2 takes over the Lea Valley line beyond Tottenham Hale, there will be room for improvements in frequency on the locals out of Liverpool Street

| 16.05.13 - 1:54 p.m. | #

Quite so - there is no point duplicating every station on the route. CR2 will be the express service.

Arkady | 16.05.13 - 2:02 p.m. | #

There are several trends pushing the design of new metro tunnels.

1. Tunneling technology keeps improving and the cost of tunneling is falling. Hence there is no need for tunnels to be small. or 'tube' sized anymore.

2. Changing Health & Safety rules mean that stations need two exits and and also need lift access. Stations are much bigger and this increases the cost of stations.

3. Big tunnels means you can fit big trains down those tunnels, which means you need even bigger and more expensive stations to handle the crowds.

4. With stations being up 250m in length, they can cover quite a big bit of the city, also the long trains need decent gaps between stations if they are going to travel at any speed.

So compared to old lines, where you can sometimes see the lights of the next station from your platform a modern metro line has stations far apart and is a cities express network.

We really can't build them any other way in a big city like London, where there are only so many routes left for new tunnels.

The large gaps on the Suburban stretches are needed to provide very fast journey times. It is only by doing this will people switch from their existing tube line, when they could just stay seated all the way in.

Everyone in North East London wants a station but with each one costing anything from £250 to £500 million and each one adding a 3 minute time penalty not too many extra will be built. But those people who do get a new station will have some reductions in journey time.

For example Dalston would just be 12 minutes from Tottenham Court Road some places are looking at 20 to 30 minute reductions in journey times (though 10 to 15 minutes are more typical).

If built Haringey and Hackney will probably see property prices spiral.

Rational Plan | 16.05.13 - 2:28 p.m. | #

I'm looking forward to seeing DG out on the streets with a microphone doing vox pops next :)

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 16.05.13 - 3:45 p.m. | #

2. Changing Health & Safety rules mean that stations need two exits and and also need lift access. Stations are much bigger and this increases the cost of stations.

Thank goodness London built most of its underground stations before this rule came in.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 16.05.13 - 9:01 p.m. | #

It's interesting that all commenters are united in their agreement that a new line should be built, only arguing about where and what type. While I don't disagree, what happens when CR1 and CR2 have both been built and are quickly full to capacity, especially if London's population is still growing; we can't just keep building more and more tunnels under London

At some point something is going to have to be done to either reduce the total numbers of people commuting, reduce the distance that people are commuting or reduce the number of people commuting to the same place ie the centre of London.

Whiff | 17.05.13 - 12:48 a.m. | #

Perhaps we need another business district to concentrate commuters around, much like Canaray Wharf did.

Stratford seems to have good connectivity now ;-)

mdb | 17.05.13 - 1:03 p.m. | #

Any Railplan modellers out there?

xmb53 | 18.05.13 - 10:33 a.m. | #











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