please empty your brain below

Why does none of this surprise me?
Boris is a right sh*t. I a cant believe everyone is taken in by him.
And of those seven, three go round Parliament Square, including both of the first two routes to be fully converted (so not counting the 38).

Stand there once the 148 has switched and the impression you will get of the significance of the new bus will be very different from anywhere else in London.
Boris is the best thing that's happened to London for the last 20 or more years. Thank goodness he ousted Livingstone.

The New Bus for London is great. Have a ride on one, love it when the engine stops and it still glides off silently. Just like the old Trolleybuses.
Most of the innovations Johnson is taking credit for (e.g the Overground) were projects started in Livingstone's time.

Agent Z - it is indeed a relief when the engine stops - it is dreadfully noisy, and seems to be working most of the time, even when the bus is not moving: it's the air-conditioning working overtime to compensate for that huge hole at the back, (which also requires someone to be employed specifically to stop you using it).

Incidentally, I often see them south of the river - empty No 11s going back to Stockwell garage - presumably because they're too big to be garaged anywhere nearer the line of route.
Sorry for double post

Interesting that most of the outer London boroughs were visited during the working week, when most of the people likely to have the bus inflicted on them would actually be at work.

Mind you, with straight roads for the most part, and relatively long journeys (meaning more people will go upstairs), the 65, which links two of the locations it was exhibited, might be one of the least worst routes to put these behemoths on. (Until two of them try to pass each other at the Petersham corner......)

nah - let's treat the 148 as an aberration and hope the things never operate on any other route outside Middlesex (even the No 8 stops just short of Essex!)


By the way, DG - I don't think Golders Green is as far out of London as you've shown it

dg writes: Thought I'd fixed that.
Fixed now, thanks.

timbo

Maybe Livingstone started some things but the persona of Boris is far more acceptable whether he is a **** or not.

"that huge hole at the back, (which also requires someone to be employed specifically to stop you using it)."

Is that true? I got on at the front and went upstairs so never noticed.
There's no money to fund route 8 with a conductor. So when the New Bus comes to Bow, the rear platform will be closed at all times except at bus stops. Am unimpressed.
I like the old routemasters.
And I like the new routemasters.

I like being different.

I also like Boris.

At least when he's PM we'll be able to have a laugh. It matters not one iota who the figurehead is, or of what declared political persusasion these days, so we may at least have soemthing to amuse us.

*makes rapid exit, backwards*
I have to say, DG is at its worst when it just Boris bashes, which is what I can read from today's posting. Without the cheap political points, it might have been a half decent post ...
Ah, yes - I went to the first one, in Bexleyheath.

I think the thing which enables Boris to patronise the outer boroughs is that his zone 1 initiatives - new buses, cycle hire, silly garden bridges - look good on the telly without bothering Tory voters' cosy lives in zones 5/6, which they rarely leave.

It was apt that the pre-election tour visited places which had barely seen a Routemaster in three decades, never mind a bendy bus.

Oddly enough, the Boris bus is growing on me a little - but then I never travel upstairs...
@blue witch
"*makes rapid exit, backwards*"

Not between stops, I hope
...of interest, could be the fact that of the 1,500 new buses proposed for London in the next 10 years ...600 (minus the ones already delivered i guess) are what we now seem to term as "new bus" the other 900 are different "buses that are also new". Question is if the "new bus" is so well designed for London and the more that are brought the lower costings, then how good must the other 900 "other new buses" be? Plus, an here is another odd thing, what of the two Chinese built 'fully-electric' buses on trial out of Waterloo? They are (currently) single deck buses but zero (local) emissions...which i believe is the ultimate aim for the CCZ.
There are rumbling rumours, yet to be confirmed, that the 38 is to be fully converted to NB4L. Arriva are advertisting for customer assistants for a route serving Hackney and Dalston. I guess we'll hear about that when the 148 switches over in a few weeks time. TfL usually announces the next conversion or two when a route switches over to NB4Ls.

@ E - the NB4L is a long bus and simply will not fit round some routes nor are three doors, two staircases necessary. Therefore buying other new buses is a perfectly sensible thing to do. We are now seeing a move in TfL contract awards to hybrid double deckers on busy suburban routes that never reach Zone 1. We have also seen an award for hybrid single deckers on route 100 but that does largely serve Zone 1. We're also due 4 all electric single deck buses for the H98 at Hounslow plus 2 virtual electric double deckers for trial on a route serving the City of London. We also have the new euroVI engine spec which will have to be used on any further diesel bus deliveries.

The technology in terms of cleaner diesel, hybrids and battery power is advancing pretty quickly so it's perfectly likely that future non NB4L buses may well perform better than the NB4Ls on order up to 2016.
...perhaps, an i just a layman here, 2or3 versions should been designed/proposed? standard (long) wheelbase, short (not so long) wheelbase and perhaps a single deck option. The Routemasters had two different lengths...an they were used all over London. If quicker boarding/alighting times, being able to hop on and off when stuck in traffic, having a "customer assistant" for those who require help and climate-controlled deck are all good things then it good everywhere in London.
Timbo: Stockwell has operated the 11 since 2002. It had to move out of Waterloo to make room for, erm, bendy buses... And it's had a share of the 11 at weekends for longer than that.

I used the 11 last weekend and was quite happy with the 'New Bus' in service. Seems to me that TfL has basically designed itself an artic with the trailer upstairs(!) with the flexibility to be used in different modes.
There was nothing wrong in showing the new bus all over London, though most of the stops were in the inner suburbs.

It's not as if no one from the outer suburbs goes to the centre of town, or only uses public transport when they do so.

The NB4L is as much about iconography of London and how a London bus should look like. Having the buses in the centre of town where the traffic is worse makes the most sense.

I think you'll find this sort of thing used to be called civic pride.
@ Rational Plan

"as much about iconography of London" as anything else. I agree and bet it "paints a pretty picture" of London as it glides past Big Ben. Lets hope that it can serve Londoners well for at least half the time the Routemasters did. If in 40-50 years time there are "NB4L's" on 'Heritage Routes' then maybe we can say yes they did.
@ rational Plan
"Having the buses in the centre of town where the traffic is worse makes the most sense"

@PC
The NB4L is a long bus and simply will not fit round some routes nor are three doors, two staircases necessary."

It makes no sense to build a bus with a rear platform and then run it without ever using that platform, as we understand is to happen (not just off peak) on at least the 8 and 148 (and already on the 38). All that extra length and weight could be used for seats (or other road users).

Incidentally, there are suggestions on other fora that the 205 may be converted fairly soon
Is it really Boris-bashing to criticise the introduction of buses at huge expense (the bus companies won't pay for them) staffed at great expense (the bus companies won't pay for the extra staff), when those of us who live on the route 343 are told at a public meeting by TfL that yes, they know there are too many people trying to use the buses on that route, and yes, they know the area is going to increase in population rapidly over the next five years...but no they have no money to do anything about it.
Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in London but I have never understood the routemaster worship. The only time I went on one of the originals I found it uncomfortable compared to modern buses. Therefore I have never understood the desire for a new routemaster and consider the whole thing to be a waste of money. As a child the thing that made London buses unique was that they were all red. I'm glad that's one thing that hasn't changed.
The NBfL has been to Harrow as well - see http://tinyurl.com/ojsy7gl for the story.
"I also like Boris.

"At least when he's PM we'll be able to have a laugh. It matters not one iota who the figurehead is, or of what declared political persusasion these days, so we may at least have soemthing to amuse us."

And that's why democracy has become a joke. Maybe we should just give the PM job to the next winner of Celebrity Big Brother.
@ Clarence

would not call it so much as 'worship' but the sense of having something (for the time) designed for purpose ...and even the red was, for a while, as many a Londoner will tell you, not assured with various colour schemes being laid on. As for modern buses and comfort...some have seats which are little more than fibre-glass with a thin pad stuck on and try sitting anywhere near the engine on a warm (let alone a hot) day an you save a trip to a sauna. No bus is perfect, but things should as time goes by (even slowly) improve. Think, perhaps, that the "NB4L" was a good idea that got bit rushed and maybe didn't get enough input from those who will ultimately use it; passengers, drivers and operators alike.
I see no 'cheap political points' - anyway, the map speaks for itself. Standard local politics practice, except in most areas they don't have big shiny new buses to play with.
I look forward to trying those all electric buses. I do not like the NBFL.
Please respect internet hygeine, and do not link to Andrew Gilligan.

It's lucky they're doing the 148, otherwise there would still be no NB4Ls south of the river or at more than one point on the pre-election tour.

It's good to see a bit of Boris-bashing once in a while when most of the rest of the media is lining up to kiss his feet, against all evidence that he has actually done a damn thing for London. Shiny pointless toys like this and the cable car don't count.
correction: 1,700 new buses, of which 600 are "NB4L" ...so almost 2/3 are new buses that are not "NB4L". If i remember rightly even the DM & Titan type buses numbered approx. 2,500 & 1,250 respectively ...and they were "off the shelf" buses not designed as London buses, although there was a attempt to rename the DM as "the Londoner".
The NB4L is a funny one. I actually like it- apart from in summer. It is a stylish and attractive bus and it is much quieter than the Volvo hybrids they use on the 73. But then I think how much it cost, compared to buying normal hybrids, and weep.

I've never been stopped getting off one in traffic, so don't know what the complaints are about the conductor on the back (other than their cost).
@ NJE

I also use the 343, and can vouch for how severe the overcrowding has become on that route. It has been a problem for several years, with considerable numbers of people being left behind day after day, in a part of London which is some distance from tube or rail and relies on just that one bus route. It featured on a BBC2 documentary last year - the clip is on YouTube (search for "343 bus") and includes some footage of the public meeting.

I understand that, at long last, a solution may be on its way - but only after prolonged pressure from the local community and local politicians. Should it have been allowed to get this bad, or taken this long to resolve?

Boris Johnson deserves plenty of the blame for this. It was he who threw away the plans for Cross River Tram, which would have followed the route 343 corridor from Peckham to Elephant & Castle, then heading over Waterloo Bridge towards Holborn and King's Cross. It is also he who is reducing funding for bus services, which is why TfL have had no budget to make improvements to the service.

Plenty of people may coo over the New Bus for London (or New Routemaster, as it is now being called), but what transport problems does it address?

The 343 isn't the only bus route which is failing to cope with the numbers of passengers wanting to travel. Could the money which Boris Johnson is lavishing on his new bus be put to better use tackling capacity pinch-points instead?
@"E"
"DM & Titan type buses numbered approx. 2,500 & 1,250"

Actual totals
DM2646
T1131 (including five second hand from West Midlands and one ex-demonstrator taken into stock)
M1485 (including 40 Mk IIs, and five secondhand)
RM2760 (including RMC, RML, etc, but not RMA, FRM and the ex-Northern General vehicles)
RT4825, plus RTW500, plus RTL1631, plus RLH76 - TOTAL 7032!
One of the issues with the "NB4L Grand Tour" was that it has seemingly set an expectation with some Tory Assembly members. Boris is regularly questioned as to when NB4Ls are going to appear in the wilds of Redbridge, Havering, Wandsworth and Kingston. I think the answer to that is "sometime never". Boris must surely rue giving his own side a stick with which to bash him with.

Meanwhile I'm sure Ms Pidgeon and Ms Shawcross (London Assembly Members) have already typed their Mayor's Questions about the conversion of route 148 to OPO NB4Ls with no conductors / open platform being available. It'll be fun seeing how those questions are answered by the Mayor.
I hadn't realised the 148 won't have conductors. So even if the buses will start to appear south of the river, the conductors won't. Are they all ex-taxi drivers? Or maybe witches (can't cross running water).
(.....or maybe taxi drivers are witches?)

How long before there is an accident from someone trying to board a passing NBfL and realising too late that the door is shut?
I was on a 390 along Oxford Street on Saturday afternoon. A young couple came down the back stairs, chatting excitedly about this being 'that new bus you can jump on and off'. With no platform attendant and the back door closed, they were clearly confused, but the guy reasoned 'perhaps you have to open it yourself'. Of course, this was the emergency exit button - but off they popped, and the driver simply closed the back doors after them.

These buses - and the hype - are creating quite dangerous expectations compared to the service the operators are actually able to provide.
thanks timbo! wonder how the "NB4L"/LT class will stack-up figures wise when it is finally withdrawn and replaced by the "New-NB4L" or a "off the shelf" other
The original 1920s six-wheeled LT type ran to 1400 examples, so there's a way to go yet
Looks like the No 10 (Hammersmith to Kings Cross via Oxford Street) is to have these before the No 8 but after the 148.
http://www.lots.org.uk/
(news entry for 2 Feb)
This route largely duplicates existing LT routes, notably the 9 and 390, although I think they will be new to Park Lane, so no new boroughs and only one across the Thames (and none across the Lea). It does mean they'll have a run of three (9 10 11): four when the No 8 follows a few months later.
@PC jan 4th

Looks like you were right http://www.lots.org.uk/ for today (march 16th) now reporting delivereies for Borismasterisation of both the 10 and the 38. Will we see conductors back on the 38 when the source of the "confusion" is removed?
The 453 will be converting on the 20th of September, to Deptford!
Goodness - that's practically Kent!

Conductors?










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