please empty your brain below
Do people really count steps?....im guessing yes if they want a free coffee via their 'fitness app'

Bruce Wayne | 30.08.16 - 7:07 a.m. | #

But how true is the assumption that 100 steps is one minute of walking?

popartist | 30.08.16 - 7:25 a.m. | #

Is it steps between station entrances, or platform to platform?

If I arrive at Liverpool Street mainline station, I normally walk to Moorgate for the GN Electrics in preference to walking all the way to the Circle/Met/Hammity platform, wait for the train, go one stop, then walk again via the footbridge to reach the GN Electric platforms.

The big thing that is omitted from all this, is the ability to get lost on your walk, even whilst waiving your phone about looking at a map.

They should paint lines on the pavement for the punters to follow.

| 30.08.16 - 7:34 a.m. | #

Looking for a good way to present the data in the "quicker to walk" list.

How about improving the alphabetic list, by putting in all the return journeys (just a few clicks for someone who already has the data in a suitable form). This will double the size of the document, but no matter.

Then supplement this by a map, just like the one DG started (and showed us a bit of) - but without the actual numbers (which do indeed make it messy).

Then a punter can see from the map that their proposed journey is on the list, and can quickly find it alphabetically.

Or, getting away from paper, present the "messy" map on your screen, with a hovering cursor that flashes one of the black lines and displays (or speaks) the time for the black line you have chosen.

Malcolm | 30.08.16 - 7:53 a.m. | #

South Hampstead to Swiss Cottage (much nearer than Finchley Rd or St Johns Wood) is a glaring omission, but I think there are other links missing too, eg between the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines.

Dominic H | 30.08.16 - 7:59 a.m. | #

I hate it when distances are measured in time or number of steps like this. I know how fast I walk (on the flat) so tell me how far it is, not how long it takes to walk. People walk at different speeds, so there isn't one answer as to how long it takes.

Jon Combe | 30.08.16 - 8:44 a.m. | #

There may be some value in telling you time rather than distance - if that time is from platform level (as that's probably the thing you care about). That said, they're not really suggesting you use this in the middle of a tube journey - otherwise they'd provide OSIs between them so you could use them as part of single journeys.

Ed | 30.08.16 - 8:49 a.m. | #

@Ed - OSIs..??

Frank F | 30.08.16 - 8:57 a.m. | #

Pudding Mill Lane to Stratford 24 mins?
Mile End to Stratford 44 mins, but Bow Church DLR to Stratford 16 + 24 (40)? Surely not, especially as Mile End to Bow Road is 7 mins.
A case of should have got out of the office...

scrumpy | 30.08.16 - 8:59 a.m. | #

@frank F
Out of station interchanges - places where you can exit the system by one barrier line and re-enter by another without it counting as two Oyster journeys.
Bank to Cannon Street is going to be even shorter when the new entrance to the former opens

timbo | 30.08.16 - 9:01 a.m. | #

OSI = out of station interchange, where you change between separate stations - but its counted as one journey, explained here

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/osi-list/

| 30.08.16 - 9:04 a.m. | #

Surely presenting the information in alphabetical order is the most sensible way of going about it? And putting the reverse journey in would be unnecessarily complicated.

Charles | Homepage | 30.08.16 - 9:25 a.m. | #

From 2003, here's Rodcorp's much-lauded "tube map with 500m walklines".

Also from the early 2000s, a tube map showing all the distances between stations (along the tracks, not on foot).

diamond geezer | Homepage | 30.08.16 - 9:30 a.m. | #

@Charles ... presenting information alphabetically is the usually accepted way to organise things ... BUT ... how many people are confident with their alphabet, I know many people who struggle

Caz | 30.08.16 - 10:40 a.m. | #

Has Europe approved a standard measure for 'a step' yet ? Oh, wait .....

Antipodean | 30.08.16 - 10:48 a.m. | #

Looking at whitechapel station, I would have to doubt the number of steps listed. I live very close to the station and both Stepney Green and Shadwell are around half a mile away whereas Shoreditch High Street is almost a mile on foot, due to there not being a straight route to get there. It would also be easy to get lost trying if you don't really know the area.

Having said that, it's much better to use steps as a measurement than time. Lots of the cycle superhighway signs say how long it'll take to get somewhere, which is preposterous when you consider the difference in speed between different types of cyclists. Not to mention that it renders the signs useless for pedestrians

Lumma | 30.08.16 - 10:51 a.m. | #

The main entrances to Bank and Monument (by which I mean the original ones, which not coincidentally are the ones closest to the things they're named after) are both closer on the surface to Cannon Street than they are to each other. Mansion House station is also about as far from Bank. If the Underground had been built by one company then you'd probably have a single Bank/Cannon Street station complex (although it'd probably be at the expense of fewer entrance points in the area).

When the new Bank entrance opens it's got to become an official signed interchange with Cannon Street NR, like what currently happens with Embankment and Charing Cross NR.

Gary | 30.08.16 - 11:57 a.m. | #

The original terminus of the City and South London Railway was even closer to the Monument than Monument station is.

Where was the original 1898 entrance to Bank (aka City) station?

Timbo | 30.08.16 - 12:20 p.m. | #

I timed Euston to Euston Square at around 4 and a half minutes – of course the exact duration depends, apart from height/stride length and walking speed, on how much traffic there is when you're crossing the road.

Anyway I found it a very convenient route to meet someone at Euston and quickly get them to Heathrow via the Heathrow Express - steps down at Euston Square and the H&C interchange is pretty easy when you use the lift. Also Euston Square was very quiet at 8am on a Friday, despite the TfL journey planner warning 8.15-8.45am was it's busiest period.

William | 30.08.16 - 12:38 p.m. | #

I would expect Finchley Road & Frognal to Hampstead to take longer than the reverse, given the climb involved.

Stephen Bird | 30.08.16 - 3:38 p.m. | #

...maybe TfL can provide a tube map with bus route(s) marked that link stations along each line...for when (and there will be) a strike or 'suspension of service'. that be useful

Grumpy Anon | 30.08.16 - 3:53 p.m. | #

Grumpy Anon - I've often though showing in outline major roads (with buses) that connect tube stations on various lines might be useful - albeit running the risk of information overload. Obvious contenders: the Edgware Road (Bakerloo: short walk from Maida Vale and Kilburn Park) - Overground (Kilburn High Road) - Jubilee (Kilburn) - (NR : short walk from Cricklewood and also proposed Brent Cross Thameslink) - Northern (short walk from Colindale, Burnt Oak, Edgware); the Finchley Road - Jubilee (St Johns Wood, Swiss Cottage) - NR (Short walk: South Hampstead) - Jubilee & Met (Finchley Road) - Overground (Finchley Road & Frognal) - Northern Edgware branch (Golders Green) - Northern Barnet branch (Finchley Central, short walk from the next three stations beyond that); or the Holloway Road

Dominic H | 30.08.16 - 4:49 p.m. | #

Your post on the previous TfL tube walking map from November 2015 linked to an example of an unofficial "time to walk between stations" map from 2007, and an unofficial "number of steps" map from 2009. Both seem broadly consistent with the TfL maps.

Andrew | 30.08.16 - 4:53 p.m. | #

I often wonder if DG is a current or ex- employee of TfL. And thus just can't help but slate and somethings 'promote' their 'actions'

E | 30.08.16 - 6:16 p.m. | #

E: an odd thing to wonder. Since TfL's actions affect almost everyone living or working in London (and many others), they are generally likely to be of interest to many more people than just employees and ex-employees.

Malcolm | 30.08.16 - 8:11 p.m. | #

@ Malcolm

I beg to differ...it not "an odd thing to wonder". TfLs actions (or lack thereof) as you rightly say affect/are of interest to many people. But I only know of a couple whom seem to 'share' this 'interest' via blogs with others. In the case of DG it quite often critical. That may just be how it is...or there may be some other reason. I'm very critical of a certain company I once worked for ...so it not beyond the realms of extreme possiblities that DG is or was employed by TfL. He may or may not enlighten us...so I'll continue, respectfully, to my wonderings.

E | 30.08.16 - 8:34 p.m. | #

Caz -- it may be that some people do struggle with their alphabet, but in the absence of any other organising principle, it is surely the best way to proceed.

Charles | Homepage | 30.08.16 - 8:47 p.m. | #

I stood within yards of DG at Red Arrows flypast for Invictus Games on Greenway and was convinced that he was also a TfL employee. However he denied it about 2 months ago, and as they used to say on the Stock Market before they were corrupted by Big Bang greed "his word is his bond".
On question of lists which is the subject that gets most comments? My bet "Stop M", which shows how much the little things in life matter.
As stated above TfL does have an effect on most of us whatever you think, and if they get it right that makes every bodies lives potentially easier. However as shown recently the marketing side seems to be in disarray. Maybe the result of 2 reorganizations in last few years "letting" many good people go, who all had ability to spell and knew their geography and services. Come back SX et al.

scrumpy | 30.08.16 - 11:18 p.m. | #

I think people use the information in different ways. For walking time, lower is better, because people are in the time mindset, but show it as steps and more is better because it's ow "fitness" headspace.

Uncle Audrey | 31.08.16 - 2:52 a.m. | #

i'm surprised they didn't give the distances between stations in double decker bus lengths or football pitches so the press could visualize more easily...

JD | 31.08.16 - 3:12 a.m. | #

I'm surprised neither TfL, nor DG mentioned walking Baker Street (Met, H&C & Circle platforms) to Marylebone, which is a much better option than trekking to the Bakerloo platforms.

dg writes: TfL's list is of stations 'not on the same line', so this is disallowed. Also, 'trekking to the Bakerloo platforms' is much quicker.

Alasdair | Homepage | 31.08.16 - 9:35 a.m. | #

Curious that Edgware Road - Lancaster Gate is listed but not the much shorter walks between Edgware Road (Circle) - Marylebone and Paddington - Lancaster Gate

timbo | 31.08.16 - 11:40 a.m. | #

The other day, I had to explain to an out-of-towner the distinction between Paddington (Praed Street) and Paddington (Bishop's whatnot). He needed to get to Liverpool Street and thence to Rome via Stansted, and was by his own account "useless at trains", so I felt the H&C was the best bet! Explaining Lancaster Gate would have made his head go pop. I got the crucial fact across "get near Burger King and follow the faded pink-and-yellow line" on the floor.

And I didn't go on about the history, or the old station names, or the fact that the Circle is no longer a circle! It does make me wonder though, how Padd District and Padd H&C would measure up on a comparison like this.

george | 31.08.16 - 1:49 p.m. | #

Sure is exciting - I'd love to find out how they arrived at walking distances between Wapping and Rotherhithe, Canada Water and Canary Wharf, Canary Wharf and North Greenwich and North Greenwich and Canning Town! Have they been busy building some bridges while I wasn't looking?

punzel | Homepage | 01.09.16 - 1:06 a.m. | #

Wapping to Rotherhithe is via the Rotherhithe road tunnel (which few sane pedestrians would actually walk), whereas I think the other three are all via the Greenwich foot tunnel.

Sarah | 01.09.16 - 5:06 p.m. | #











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